Adirondack Forum

Adirondack Forum (http://www.adkforum.com/index.php)
-   Adirondack Wildlife (http://www.adkforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=67)
-   -   Most wildlife-abundant area of the ADKs (http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=21096)

Gman 04-14-2015 12:14 PM

There may not be the will, the courage to challenge those opposed to any re-introduction but if wolves had any protection whatsoever in central Ontario they would be in the ADK's on there own this I am convinced. They step out of Algonquin Park and they are dead. But they have no choice as no deer winter in the park. Imagine hearing the long drawn out deep howl of a wolf pack in the ADK's and not the yip yap of a coyote? Instantly you'd see the Park as a lot more Wild . Nightly wolf howls attract lots of tourists in Algonquin.

Holdstrong 04-14-2015 07:32 PM

I love hearing the coyotes at night.

Can't even imagine how incredible it would be to hear a wolf pack howling.

An absurd amount of people would visit for the experience. Wildlife viewing is a huge economic opportunity, with enormous potential, but would take a pretty seismic shift in the way people in the Adirondacks think about wildlife. From the DEC on down to the towns, it would require changes in how we think about managing wildlife populations. I'm not optimistic that it is possible, but if anything could spur such a change in thinking it might be the economic argument.

Justin 04-14-2015 07:48 PM

Quick question...
Can a lone coyote howl similar in sound to a wolf howl?
I only ask because my father & I were camped in the West Canada Lakes Wilderness a few years ago when we both heard a wolf-like howl not too far from where we were camped, at right around dusk.
We both have heard coyotes many times before, and we both agreed that it didn't sound like a coyote. Whatever it was howled for several seconds, maybe close to a minute in length, and then we never heard anything further.
True story.

serotonin 04-14-2015 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holdstrong (Post 230200)
I love hearing the coyotes at night.

Can't even imagine how incredible it would be to hear a wolf pack howling.

An absurd amount of people would visit for the experience. Wildlife viewing is a huge economic opportunity, with enormous potential, but would take a pretty seismic shift in the way people in the Adirondacks think about wildlife. From the DEC on down to the towns, it would require changes in how we think about managing wildlife populations. I'm not optimistic that it is possible, but if anything could spur such a change in thinking it might be the economic argument.

The Adirondack Ranchers Union is too powerful.




Oh...
Wait.

forgedin78 04-14-2015 07:59 PM

Yes coyotes will howl too. But I don't hear it nearly as often as the....yip yip yip yowl, though.

montcalm 04-14-2015 07:59 PM

Plenty 'o critters in the mountains. I've heard people complain about not seeing stuff... mostly older folks on day trips. meh. You gotta get out there, and be out a lot, then your chances go up. Every time I've seen something interesting has been when I wasn't looking... just happened. Sucked because I didn't get a photo, but was also good at the same time because I just observed with my eyes and not a machine. It's also usually more memorable.

I've seen bears at a dump and at the zoo, but it's different when you see a critter in it's element.

If you really want to get shots of them, best be like a hunter. Look for signs, then sit and wait... or else just do what you do and you'll see some eventually... there's lots of land and they are pretty aware of us - plus most carnivores get more active at dusk. I usually hear them before I see them. Curious bobcats, coyotes, bears, etc... they're around, more than you might think or want to know ;)

Gman 04-14-2015 08:28 PM

You have animals there that are part wolf. Trent university here in Ontario did a compreshensive study with one of the NY schools and the DEC. The way they seperated wolves, coywolves and coyotes was by skull size. Algonquin animals were almost pure wolf while Frontenac Arch animals lost wolf characteristics as one went south and east. However even Adirondack animals had some wolf characteristics but less than Algonquin and the Frontenac Arch animals. It does show that wolves are getting into the ADKS. It does not have to be a wolf that crosses the St. Lawrence. There is no need not to have protection for wolves between Algonquin and the ADK's. The human and agricultural footprint is not that big for coyotes to be an issue. The problem is deer hunters will shoot anything that looks like a wolf and leave it in the woods. Classified as a varmint it's like shooting a groundhog. Give that a thought for a second. A wolf gets no more respect from hunters and wildlife managers than a field rat.

Gman 04-14-2015 09:34 PM

[QUOTE=Justin;230202]Quick question...
Can a lone coyote howl similar in sound to a wolf howl?
I only ask because my father & I were camped in the West Canada Lakes Wilderness a few years ago when we both heard a wolf-like howl not too far from where we were camped, at right around dusk.
We both have heard coyotes many times before, and we both agreed that it didn't sound like a coyote. Whatever it was howled for several seconds, maybe close to a minute in length, and then we never heard anything further.
True story.[/QUOTE)


It could have been something more than just a coyote. I have seen dozens maybe hundreds of killed coyotes and coywolves. I have seen quite a few hides classified as wolf by the North Bay exchange. I know what a wolf or animal with a lot of wolf DNA looks like. On a summer morning just before Big Moose a dirty white animal crossed the road in front of us. It was a young animal and by the way that it moved (it jumped a fence), it's demeanour and body size and composition it had a lot of wolf in it. It was a male and had a lanky all leg awkward gait of a young animal. A typical big eastern coyote is maybe 24" at the shoulder. This thing I pegged at @ 28" or better. But I doubt it weighed more than 60 lbs.. Given a year or so it might hit 70 or 80 lbs.. Typical Eastern Wolf male. They are there.

serotonin 04-14-2015 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gman (Post 230212)
They are there.

The first wolf I ever saw in the eastern U.S. was late one night around 1986, as I pulled up to a McDonald's drive-thru in Rhode Island. He was standing up and poking his nose through the window looking for hand-outs, which he received.

There were several others nearby but this one was the most gregarious; and Large.

Gman 04-15-2015 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serotonin (Post 230213)
The first wolf I ever saw in the eastern U.S. was late one night around 1986, as I pulled up to a McDonald's drive-thru in Rhode Island. He was standing up and poking his nose through the window looking for hand-outs, which he received.

There were several others nearby but this one was the most gregarious; and Large.

From a man who has been know to howl like wolf.

dmartenvt 04-20-2015 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin (Post 230202)
Quick question...
Can a lone coyote howl similar in sound to a wolf howl?
I only ask because my father & I were camped in the West Canada Lakes Wilderness a few years ago when we both heard a wolf-like howl not too far from where we were camped, at right around dusk.
We both have heard coyotes many times before, and we both agreed that it didn't sound like a coyote. Whatever it was howled for several seconds, maybe close to a minute in length, and then we never heard anything further.
True story.

I did hear a wolf howl one night several years ago at my place (Northeastern ADKs); it was stunning. It was very different from the yips and howls of the coy-wolf packs that I usually hear. They did not take up residency, they were around for a short time, and from what I could tell there 3-4 of them. I found their tracks and sign as well. It was amusing because I had an elderly visitor from Ireland who went white as a ghost when I dragged him onto the porch to listen; I think he thought it was a banshee cry.

As for wildlife, I am not terribly remote, a couple miles outside town. On my land I've either seen, gotten photos from the trail cam, heard, or seen sign of coy-wolves, fox, deer , porcupines, pine martens, fisher, ravens, pheasants, turkeys, spruce grouse, ruffed grouse, bitterns, herons, pileated woodpeckers, owls, turtles, snowshoe hares and bears. Numerous chipmunks, some red squirrels, mice mice and more mice; voles, etc. I came across moose tracks this winter, and signs of bobcat a few years ago.

But on a regular walk, I will not see much, the wildlife come and go with the seasons and some years seem to be more plentiful. Recently the deer have been more plentiful, as have the barred owls. Fisher, bears, bobcat, moose are more elusive.

I have a vernal pond that the wood frogs breed in, and have seen all sorts of salamanders and mud puppies (?) and other slithery things I can't identify. Bullfrogs seem to be on the decline.

The land was last logged around 50 years ago, though my neighbors log their land. The logging has been more active recently, which probably accounts for the upsurge in deer. The bears haven't visited for about a year, I expect them back for this year's blueberry crop. I do know that a couple of the bears who would come through in the late summer/early fall (they seemed to be on a schedule) were shot and killed by neighbors, but I had a new mother and cub who I hope do the same.

One thing that strikes me is the relatively low bird population. I am not a great identifier of birds, but it always seem Spring should be a little noisier. I do wish the wildlife was a bit more abundant, but I have three dogs who keep them at bay. Except the owls, crows, and ravens, who appear to stick around to torture them from above. Still, I am not sure if what I also perceive as the lower wildlife numbers is simply the fact that the native carrying capacity, as the forest matures, is lower than one would expect from a more "managed" forest.

forest dweller 05-01-2015 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmartenvt (Post 230370)
Still, I am not sure if what I also perceive as the lower wildlife numbers is simply the fact that the native carrying capacity, as the forest matures, is lower than one would expect from a more "managed" forest.

This again! Must have been no wildlife there 500 years ago when most of it was pristine and old growth.

Katie001 05-25-2015 05:56 AM

Iíve not been to many but yeah...Algonquin park I agree is a great wildlife reserve. Iíve been there twice and it is a repository of moose. This place is less populated and maintained well. The wildlife there is untouched and it looks wonderful. I had my stay at an Algonquin park cabin( http://www.killarneylodge.com/algonquin-cabin-rentals/ ), located at the center of the park. I was really happy to see that Canada still had such wonderful places full with wildlife resources. I think that's one among the beautiful places in Canada.

Schultzz 05-26-2015 12:34 AM

Don't laugh. A great Horned Owl fairly close by can sound like a wolf far away. What gives them away is their "ku ku ka choo." This is a familiar call for their mate. We used to make the same sound on a call in the evening to locate turkeys on roost.

Glen 05-26-2015 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schultzz (Post 232069)
Don't laugh. A great Horned Owl fairly close by can sound like a wolf far away. What gives them away is their "ku ku ka choo." This is a familiar call for their mate. We used to make the same sound on a call in the evening to locate turkeys on roost.


I've heard Robins sound like wolves too. It's weird..... :)

dmartenvt 05-30-2015 02:24 PM

I've heard the barred owls sound exactly like dogs barking. My dogs go insane over this.

loraxchick 11-30-2015 01:10 PM

I would bet on a loon. I could see someone not familiar with loon calls may mistake them for a howl. And very eerie indeed!

Bounder45 07-30-2016 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forest dweller (Post 230946)
This again! Must have been no wildlife there 500 years ago when most of it was pristine and old growth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forest dweller (Post 229894)
Sorry, I don't buy the more logging the better theory with regards to wildlife - it implies that wildlife need humans to impact the environment (negatively) for them to thrive. If that is the case how did wildlife do perfectly fine back when humans, native Americans in particular, left the forests pretty much alone?

It was common practice for the Native Americans in some areas, including those who hunted in the ADK's, to artificially clear out the land and promote wildlife #'s by doing forest burns. The Moose River Plains WF was one of those areas, hence why the treeless area near Moose River was historically referred to as the "Indian Plains."

Over the long term, yes, there are control mechanisms that nature had in place to manage the populations of resident animals. Over the short-term, hunters, whether from indigenous tribes or European settlers, used forestry techniques to sustain animal #'s.

The reason for the relatively low density of animals in the ADK's versus other parts of NY and other states has much to do with food supply. Untouched or old growth forests will generally have less in the way of food for something like deer or moose versus agricultural areas and logged land...that's been pretty well established by the DEC and other wildlife experts at this point.

Now whether or not you agree with that type of hands-off technique to wildlife management is another matter entirely.

Blackjackdavey 09-06-2016 09:06 AM

As a resident inside the blue line and as one who regularly visits wilderness areas on foot and on trail, I just want to say three things 1) just driving back and forth from work I've seen bears, moose, porcupines, foxes, fishers, coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, opossums, skunks and minks. 2) On foot, on a trail, through the deepest wilderness on offer in the Adirondacks, I have never seen a thing. 3) By canoe, I have seen every major bird, amphibian and reptile around and plenty big game as well. The wildlife is where the water is, and you're probably not going to see much on a casual walk.

Just in case this thread is still discussing the benefits of logging, that is nothing more than crazy talk. There is plenty of private land in the country where wood products can come from. The park would be a better place if all logging activities were located outside the blue line.

Hard Scrabble 09-06-2016 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schultzz (Post 232069)
Don't laugh. A great Horned Owl fairly close by can sound like a wolf far away. What gives them away is their "ku ku ka choo." This is a familiar call for their mate. We used to make the same sound on a call in the evening to locate turkeys on roost.

Sorry Schultzzie.
The Barred Owl says "Ku Ku Ka Chu.
Who cooks for you?
The Great Horned Owl says Whooo.
Jim


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:01 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.