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Newbie possibly hiking Algonquin - need a lot of advice!!

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  • Newbie possibly hiking Algonquin - need a lot of advice!!

    Hi Guys,
    I have made several trips to the Adirondacks and love it up there. I've gone canoe camping on Lake George's islands and Indian Lake, and I even camped at the Loj, but never actually went on a high peaks hike. I have hiked a few miles and gone backcountry camping in Shenandoah park and at Fingerlakes National Forrest. I broke my ankle about 1 1/2 years ago and it is still not (and will never be) at 100%, but my goal was to make it atop a high peak at the end of this summer. I have already hiked a few trails in Shenandoah this summer without incident. I am not in the best shape and am a somewhat heavy smoker. 4 mile and even shorter uphill hikes in Shenandoah w/ a full pack have tired me to the point of exhausion before, especially when it is hot. Of course, I know I can do more, with breaks.

    I am planning to make the hike to the top of Algonquin a 2 day deal unless it is easier than I am thinking. I will be starting at the Loj. A buddy and I will be packing a tent, sleeping bag, food, changes of clothes, and water purification kits plus a lot of water. Anyone have recommendations on where to get a low-priced, cheap, lightweight and compact tent suitable for 2 larger adults?? Remember I am a total newbie so maybe you guys don't even use tents for your overnight hikes? What does a typical hiker bring on an overnight trip? The lighter the better.

    Will Algonquin kill us or am I thinking it is harder than it is? I hear the top 1.6 miles is pretty steep and from my experience, steep terrain gets me huffing and puffing rather quickly. I seem to overheat quickly and sweat a LOT (even when I was younger and in shape, I was always sweating more than others, which means more water consumption for me).

    The camping area we plan to use is the spot 1.6 miles from the summit, which I assume is 2.4 miles from the Loj. What are the chances of this camping area not being full? The first night, I plan to stay at the Loj.. when should I make reservations? We are going to make the trip next Friday, the 17th through Tuesday the 21st. I hope to be at the summit on a weekday to avoid the crowd.

    I like to have the feeling of being in the wilderness.. am I picking the wrong hike? Is there still a summit steward at the top of Algonquin? What are our chances of having the summit to ourselves? If we get tired along the trail or if the camping area is full, what are the rules for backcountry camping? Can we just setup tent anywhere below 4000 feet at least a certain distance off the trail? Is there a link anyone can give me as to the rules for this? I know there are no campfires allowed, etc and I know about the alpine vegetation on the higher summits. What are rules about being on summits after dark for star gazing and hiking after dark as well? Does the summit steward stay on the summit 24 hours a day?

    I plan to pack a lot of water, but is there an abundence of water sources on the hike? Any other tips you can give me? Here is what is most important for me to have a good time:

    1) Not overly crowded, being left to myself, and a sense of nature and adventure
    2) Great views - especially in camping areas
    3) Being higher than or close to 5000ft

    Knowing this, is Algonquin the hike for me or do you recommend something else? What do you recommend for a challenging overnight hike that is not as crowded and still offers plenty of nice camping areas and views as well as some elevation? I would consider a sub 4000 foot mountain if it were possible for me to setup camp on a really scenic summit.. is that possible anywhere?

    Any thoughts, comments, etc will be GREATLY appreciated. Feel free to include what equipment you think I should take, including where I should buy. Please excuse my newbieness, but I am asking quesitons now so I am informed by the time I make my trip in order to avoid interfering with anyone else's or my own good time by doing "the wrong thing".

  • #2
    Yeah, that's a nice barrage of questions, but that good 'cause it's not a good idea to be hiking/backpacking unprepared.
    Algonquin may not be your choice of preference if you are looking for hikerless peak, it is one of the busiest peaks after Marcy I would say. Newbie or expert hiker, Algonquin is also a short hike from the Loj, easily done in a day. The hike up can be tiring, but they all are when it's your first climb of the year or first climb period.
    Not many camping spots have good view in the High Peaks, but some are located near water sources which giv'em a nice charm. One thing to note is that when it has been raining alot, some camping spots tend to be very wet and unfriendly to a tent. Sometimes, the lean-tos are much more inviting. You can usually fit 8 people in a lean-to. I myself like to bring my tent, but had to bailout in a lean-to earlier this summer because the camping sites I was targeting were drenched. I've never gone to see the site you are eying for Algonquin.
    If you want a peak that is near 5000', not to busy and has a nice camping spot, I would recommend hiking Dix from Rt73. You could pitch your tent at the Boquet River Lean-to. the view from Dix summit is amazing.
    For campsites with nice views... I haven't seen that many, but Lake Colden campsite sits beside the lake in the middle of several peaks. Most sites are surrounded by trees, and no view.

    As for essential equipment for over-night hiking: food, water, warm clothing, rain gear, first aid, lamp and batteries, sleeping bag, Bear cannister, map and smile. I'm sure I'm missing some important stuff, but other people will join in the thread for sure.

    Martin
    Who needs a Psych when you have the outdoors.

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    • #3
      Personally I think you should give it a little time so you can make sure you have the proper equipment and an idea of what you are going to be doing. Sounds as if this is almost an afterthought.

      I may be wrong, but my read is that you have no idea of distance, no idea of steepness, no dehydrated or freeze dried food, no stove, no tent, no sleeping bag, no real idea of the trail, etc. Do you even have hiking boots and clothing? Are you familar with the expression Cotton Kills? What kind of water bottles do you have, where are you going to resupply your water? Do you have a water filter? What about a bear canister? What are you going to carry to cook your food in?

      Better to take the time to prepare and perhaps hook up with someone here on one of the easier climbs when you have the proper gear.
      "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

      Comment


      • #4
        Both good points, but...

        I'd agree with Martin on his choice of hikes. Dix from Route 73 allows you to carry your camping gear on relatively level terrain, camp at a beautiful spot on the Bouquet River, and do a great high peak as a day hike. Certainly less crowded than Algonquin.
        redhawk makes some good points. You don't say when you plan to go, but if it's not relatively soon you should be prepared for cold nights, rain, sleet, snow, etc. You should also be aware of the bear problem in the high peaks - bring a canister and prepare your food away from your campsite. However, I sometimes think we get too cautious. When I started backpacking in the high peaks I wore jeans and sneakers. I had some unpleasant experiences, but I survived and learned from my mistakes. I say you should go for it! BTW, stop smoking and get in shape - you'll enjoy hiking a lot more and a lot longer. Sorry, couldn't help myself

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        • #5
          I'm with the others.

          No disrespect intended, but I don't think Algonquin is your mountain. I think your best bet is to camp at the LOJ and do a few easier dayhikes. Without proper gear and attire (particularly this time of year) is asking for trouble. It would not be unusual for the weather to turn and the temps to dip into the high 30's on a cold night or for a flurry of snow at higher elevations.

          The bigest factor, is that your out of shape. Don't get me wrong, lots of out-of-shape people climb Algonquin each year, but it would not be very enjoyable. I don't consider it all that hard of a mountain, but it surely is steep to very steep in the last mile (much of that above the trees, where exposure might become and issue). For the same reasons (significant uphill climbing) Dix might not be a good choice either. It's steep on all sides.

          I would suggest something like Cascade or possibly Phelps. They are HIGH PEAKS (with good views), are shorter, involve less climbing and are fairly mild as far as high peaks go (BUT STILL NOT EASY).

          As far as solitude, you won't find it on any of the peaks mentioned (except Dix maybe). For solitude in the high peaks, you'll need to hike much farther into the backcountry than you indicate your comfortable with.
          "I can feel your anger. It gives you focus. It makes you stronger. " Supreme Chancellor

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          • #6
            Like Dick said, an important thing to note is that you learn from experience. You'll feel like your heading in a blindfolded experience the frst time, but you will learn what to bring, what to do, and your limitations as you go. And there is no shame in bailling out due to weather or lack physical conditioning. Safety first!
            Who needs a Psych when you have the outdoors.

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            • #7
              I would add the following. Fatigue not only drains your body. It also saps the mind. Oh sure, you may complete a hike to Algonquin, but it will likely be a daylong physical and mental struggle that you surely will not enjoy.

              Day hikes in good weather are the way to start. They're fun. You'll get in shape. You'll get some great views and meet some interesting people (like maybe Redhawk ). You'll also learn some basic things such as one mile in the High Peaks does not equate to a mile in most other places!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Judgeh
                You'll also learn some basic things such as one mile in the High Peaks does not equate to a mile in most other places!
                A question about that: When it says 1.1 mile on a sign, is it 1.1 miles horizontal distance or travel distance(vertical + horizontal). 'cause some miles seem very short compared to others.
                Who needs a Psych when you have the outdoors.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Martin
                  A question about that: When it says 1.1 mile on a sign, is it 1.1 miles horizontal distance or travel distance(vertical + horizontal). 'cause some miles seem very short compared to others.
                  I can't answer that, but I've experienced the same thing. Very frustrating at times.

                  I do know that signs rarely seem to be accurate and at times are contradictory.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Martin
                    A question about that: When it says 1.1 mile on a sign, is it 1.1 miles horizontal distance or travel distance(vertical + horizontal). 'cause some miles seem very short compared to others.
                    I seem to recalll that question has come up before (somewhere else), I remember that "people who know" responded and basically said that many of the signs in the high peaks areas are off. I can't remember the specific reasoning why, but it's a fair number of them. I think the ADK is in the process of changing them but that takes a lot of time.

                    I think the most acurate distances (I've been told) is the ADK guide book (13th Edition is it). The distances given in it were measured with a "wheel". All I know is that I'd hate to hike some O' them trails pushing a stupid measuring wheel ahead of me
                    Last edited by Mavs00; 09-10-2004, 09:07 AM.
                    "I can feel your anger. It gives you focus. It makes you stronger. " Supreme Chancellor

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mavs00
                      I think the most acurate distances (I've been told) is the ADK guide book (13th Edition is it). The distances given in it were measured with a "wheel". All I know is that I'd hate to hike some O' them trails pushing a stupid measuring wheel ahead of me
                      It would have been fun to watch them try to measure the Saddleback cliff with a wheel.
                      A man needs to believe in something. I believe I'll go hiking.

                      http://community.webshots.com/user/lumberzac

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oldsmores
                        However, I sometimes think we get too cautious. When I started backpacking in the high peaks I wore jeans and sneakers. I had some unpleasant experiences, but I survived and learned from my mistakes.
                        While I will concede that many people survive wearing cotton, there is a small percentage that don't, who would have if they had been wearing some other material.

                        A perfect example is the hunter from Tupper Lake who died from hyperthermia last year in the vicinity of Moose Pond-Wanika Falls. The temperature was in the 50's (I know because I was out there in it at the same time). We had a rainstorm and then damp and drizzle for a couple of days. he got disorientatad (even though he was from the area and familiar with the trails). Rangers looked for him for several days (They asked me if I had seen him) and eventually recovered the body not far from the trail.

                        Yes, many of us make mistakes and most of us survive.
                        but.........

                        SOME DON'T!

                        So, from my own point of view, I will never tell anyone to "go for it", when all sign points to their not being prepared. I think I would have a hard time living with myself if someone was killed or injured because I told them to do something knowing all along that they were not really prepared. I always thought the job of a teacher was to help people avoid making mistakes that others had made especially dangerous ones.

                        Just a thought.
                        "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hmmm.... I appreciate your enthusiasm but I think you're bitting off a little more than you can chew, given your self proclaimed limitations. If you've never climbed a high peak before and your'e as out of shape as you're hinting towards then you might consider day hikes for now until you get a feel for what you're in for. I would start off on a trip up Cascade (arguably the easiest high peak climb) with Porter added or a Phelps trip to get your feet wet and see how you do. Not that the Adirondack high peak mountains are unattainable or difficult - especially based on world standards - but they do have their hazzards and pit falls.

                          check this out: www.adirondackjourney.com/Darwin_Award.htm
                          this kind of gives you a primer about hiking safely in the A-dacks.

                          My 2 cents on Algonquin:

                          Is relitively strenous, and down right difficult for those who aren't in shape. The last water stop that I recall is a beautiful waterfall about 50 or so yards from the designated camping site. That site is only big enough for 2-3 tents, but I've never found anyone camping there. I have stayed there overnight once, but never made it up the mountain with all my gear (I was in about the shape you're in at that time). You will never be alone on Algonquin, unless you decide to stay after dark, but camping is prohibited above 4000ft and trying to climb down that trail at night might be disasterous for the experienced, not to mention the inexperienced. The summit steward will usually head down off the peak around 4pm. If you plan on doing this hike, do it as a day hike so you're carrying less gear, and start bright and early - like 6am (I like to figure at least a mile an hour when I'm in less-than-desireable-shape for one of these hikes) this will give you enough time to get up to the summit, take a few breaks along the way, and enjoy yourself on the summit until you have to come down. Plan on the same amount of time for the return hike as you took going up.

                          Also, carry the essentials. I keep these items in my daypack on any high peak hike I do:
                          fleece jacket (include pants after early September)
                          nylon rain shell jacket (include pants after early September)
                          spare pair of socks
                          wool or fleece beenie hat after early September
                          food (including extra in case you have to spend the night due to an emergency)
                          Water - 2 liter hydration bladder with another 2 liter MSR dromedary bag
                          gatorade (man cannot live on water alone, especially those of us that sweat excessively. Take a couple of 16oz btls with you to help replace electrolytes unless the food you bring is good and salty)
                          Flashlight and headlamp
                          Trail book w/ map and compass - sometimes GPS unit
                          hand towel or bandana (not essential but helpful for those of us with overactive sweat glands)
                          "essential kit" with sierra saw, SA knife, first aid kit, repair kit, water filter, length of cord, extra batteries, whistle, toilet paper and hand sanitizer
                          "over night kit" with a tube tent, space blanket(per person), matches/lighter, fire starter sticks

                          for over night trips, the "over night kit" is left behind for obvious reasons and this gear is added:
                          tent
                          sleeping bag & pad
                          backpacking stove
                          backpacking lantern
                          extra fuel
                          freeze dried/instant foods in bear bag with rope (I've yet to get a bear container, but it's on the list)
                          cooking kit with utensils, matches, fire starter sticks (in case of emergency), toiletries, seasonings
                          travel mug and/or sierra cup per person
                          tea kettle for boiling water
                          extra clothing

                          remember to pack everything that might get ruined when wet into zip loc bags.


                          Good sources of cheap, quality gear can be had from Campmor. I also like Cabela's for some things. Higher end (and priced) stuff is everywhere including EMS, REI, LL Bean, etc. I would also suggest you pick up a copy of the ADK trailbook for the high peaks region if you don't already have it. It lays out the guidelines and rules for the area pretty well.

                          Again, I caution you for this trip. I would do a couple of day hikes first. BTW - you might find just as good if not better experiences on peaks less that 5000ft, so try not to be so focused on that height. That group is only a handful of peaks compared with so many others - many with great views and alpine-like flora just like the higher ones.

                          Take care and take it slow,

                          Muddy
                          Last edited by Muddler Mike; 09-10-2004, 12:39 PM.
                          "Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul." John Muir

                          my fishing/hiking blog: http://thewestcanadafreak.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            For those thinking I am not preparing, please know that I am! I have been doing "dayhikes" around my neighborhood in Binghamton, NY. We have a lot of hills/mountains here and I do some steep 1.8 mile walks routinely. I have been jogging, playing some basketball, etc to get in shape. Like I said, I did about 8 miles of overnight hiking and camping in Shenandoah this summer without incident in much hotter temperatures. Probably nothing compared to the Algonquin hike, but still some hilly, relatively steep terrain.

                            Also someone mentioned that I didn't say when I was going.. I actually did somewhere in my original message and I'm going Fri 9/17 to Tues 9/21. I do have almost all the gear you could think of including backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, water filters, etc. I am trying to put as much thought into this as possible so as newbie-ish as I sound, don't think I'm stupid and have a deathwish. The suggestions I am getting are very helpful. Please keep them coming!

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                            • #15
                              If you're going to be staying in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness, GET A BEAR CANISTER. The bears there can get into any food hang. The Adirondack Loj as well as the Mountaineer rent them for about $5 a day. This is a small price to pay to keep your food. Remember a fed bear is a dead bear.
                              A man needs to believe in something. I believe I'll go hiking.

                              http://community.webshots.com/user/lumberzac

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