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Old 02-20-2015, 11:00 PM   #62
Glenn MacGrady
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Western Connecticut
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by RichieC View Post
There are many hundreds of more difficult routes commonly traveled by thousands of people every year. The loop mentioned in other current threads of the Oswegatchie to Cranberry back to Lows is 20 times more difficult.

For the record, is a typical and fairly easy backcountry canoe route.

Commerce happened all over the Adirondacks in every direction. Trappers, hunters, guides conducting business of transporting "sports". Trade, etc. Logging on other stretches.

Shingle shanty was certainly used to get to Lila and Stillwater and to Tupper and the Raquette river in the past before the roads were built, and not all of those people were doing it for fun.
Richie, you're bloviating, and irrelevantly.

Those are simply opinions of yours. They might even be facts. But, even if facts, they are irrelevant because they do not appear to be part of the agreed-upon factual record in this case.

The facts as stated by both the majority and dissenting opinions is that the only evidence of historical usage of the Wilderness Waterway was (a) by the landowners themselves for hunting, fishing, trapping and bringing in their personal supplies; (b) some canoe access for a brief period in the late 1800's when the landowners gave permission for some canoeing, which was quickly retracted because of abuse; and (c) some recreational wilderness canoeists, including Phil Brown, and two DEC officials after the public Lila Traverse was completed in 1998.

Both the majority and dissenting opinions, and all the parties, agreed that there was no possibility of public access to the Wilderness Waterway at any time in history until the late 20th century when the State bought tracts to the north and south of the Wilderness Waterway to create the so-called Lila Traverse.

Finally, all parties agree that canoes are the "only" craft that can navigate the two miles of the Wilderness Waterway -- that not even a rowboat can do it.

Those -- not your assertions -- are the only record facts in the case regarding the navigability issue, which is properly stated by the dissent as practical utility for commercial transport or for highway travel by the general public. The majority evidently thinks recreational wilderness canoeists prepared for multi-day journeys with multiple portages constitute the general public. The dissent doesn't.

Not that it's relevant to this litigation, but I'm curious about your claim that the Cranberry-Oswegatchie loop is 20 times more difficult than the Lila Traverse. Would that make the Oswegatchie more or less "navigable" than the Wilderness Waterway, assuming it was entirely on private lands? Which branches? How far up? Is there public access from Cranberry Lake to the Oswegatchie, assuming we agree Cranberry Lake is navigable? Is there evidence that the general public traveled up the 2+ miles of rapids from Cranberry Lake to Inlet as a highway having practical utility?

The Oswegatchie would be an interesting litigation.
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