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Old 10-25-2018, 06:35 PM   #21
Schultzz
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This may be a blatant step in the wrong direction of a migrating thread and may need to be relocated but just a brief comment on the use of ATV's in the park. Ranger ATV use does minimal damage because of the limited repeated use in certain areas but an influx of ATV's could do vast damage throughout the park if permitted. I know this discussion has been aired before ad infinitum, but I see nothing wrong with dedicating a portion of ground to ATV use which could generate income to restore the trails used. Look how much damage overuse of wilderness areas produces. Erosion, slippery slopes for hikers, unnecessary damage from bushwhackers, etc. With six million acres of trees which produce carbon dioxide to refresh and clean the air, an ATV park, NOT in a wilderness area would permit more handicapped folks including fellow veterans to enjoy the park. It could be used year round too. So ATV haters, now it's your turn.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:52 PM   #22
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Half of the park is privately owned. Put the ATVs there, not on publicly owned wild lands. I've seen the vast damage done by illegal use, particularly in the Black River Wild Forest and the Ha-De-Ron-Day wilderness, especially on the western side, and on Tug Hill. Raping the land. Want to generate income? IMO, might as well open a brothel, same effect.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:19 PM   #23
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Thankfully, there are still plenty of places in the Adks where you can legally camp at a scenic shoreline campsite, and there are still plenty of areas in the Adks where motorized vehicles are prohibited by government law. Yet for many of us, it’s hard to ignore (& accept) how some times are a changin’ in the Adirondacks.

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Old 10-25-2018, 11:16 PM   #24
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Half of the park is privately owned. Put the ATVs there, not on publicly owned wild lands. I've seen the vast damage done by illegal use, particularly in the Black River Wild Forest and the Ha-De-Ron-Day wilderness, especially on the western side, and on Tug Hill. Raping the land. Want to generate income? IMO, might as well open a brothel, same effect.
Fat chance getting privately owned land owners to agree to that unless someone buys a tract just for that purpose. Tug Hill has a pay for ATV park and it is used a lot. If there were places available for legal ATV use the outlaws who damage the park might be less tempted to ride illegally. Many of them ride freely in wilderness areas just out of spite. They have been living there all their lives and figure it's their right. Provide areas for them and they may respect the park more. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I thank you for yours, but it's opinions like yours that spur outlaws to ruin wilderness areas as their answer to your stated opinion. I don't ride ATV's in the park at all but I know some who do.
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:28 AM   #25
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They have been living there all their lives and figure it's their right.
Well I have been living there all my life as well, I figure it should be my right not to be offended by law breakers. The peace at my camp on Tug Hill is regularly violated even at 3:00 AM, property that has been in my family for nearly 100 years. Where is my right to live there quietly and not have nearby "no ATV posted" trails and roads rutted and ruined? Here's the attitude I have heard from one rider: "I have spent over $10K on the machine, and $50K on a truck to haul it, and I pay taxes, so a $50 fine for riding where I want is pennies in the of cost of riding for the weekend."

When violations start affecting driver's licenses, maybe that would make a difference. Well I pay taxes too and I will work with legislature to make that happen.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:33 AM   #26
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When violations start affecting driver's licenses, maybe that would make a difference. Well I pay taxes too and I will work with legislature to make that happen.
When the consequences of getting caught are severe enough, that will modify behavior. That's the only thing that works with some folks. Worked pretty well for DWI.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:54 AM   #27
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Fat chance getting privately owned land owners to agree to that unless someone buys a tract just for that purpose.
There's a place outside of Fort Anne that just opened an area for dirt bikes (motorcycles) , not sure about ATVs. It's rather successful and it's privately owned. It can be done.
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:48 AM   #28
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Is there any reason for the APA making that recommendation in the first place?

It seems like the State Land Master Plan essentially becomes gospel, and yet there isn't always clear onus on the APA to prove whether or not those recommendations are useful or even viable.

Case and point: moving the lean-to back 100 feet from the water's edge on a lake that is full of motor-boat traffic and has plenty of lake-side residences seems very trivial, one could even say pointless....taxpayer money would be better spent elsewhere.
You all seem to forget that all those lake side residence property owners are state taxpayers as well, and at a much higher rate than all the "freedom loving campers" occupying their "public wilderness." Maybe the residents don't want to watch all those campers, a slightly different set of aesthetics. operating there. More and more places up north require the setbacks for location of structures on private land as well, not sure but I would not doubt that that is part of the Master plan.

Keep it wilderness but blow up the beavers!!! No creature comforts except the ones that I want! The 'dacks in the new millennium!

Justin, you could bring a shanty or a tarp for a windbreak and build a fire for heat, and still be able to see your tip ups, you just have to be sure you are close enough for the local warden to agree that you are in attendance!
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:59 PM   #29
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Here's the attitude I have heard from one rider: "I have spent over $10K on the machine, and $50K on a truck to haul it, and I pay taxes, so a $50 fine for riding where I want is pennies in the of cost of riding for the weekend."

I rest my case.

When violations start affecting driver's licenses, maybe that would make a difference. Well I pay taxes too and I will work with legislature to make that happen.[/QUOTE]

Go for it.
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Old 10-26-2018, 02:00 PM   #30
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When the consequences of getting caught are severe enough, that will modify behavior. That's the only thing that works with some folks. Worked pretty well for DWI.
Good point.
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:40 PM   #31
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Guys,

"Maybe the residents don't want to watch all those campers, a slightly different set of aesthetics. operating there".

So maybe we should make all of Raquette Lake a gated community to avoid any offense by the great unwashed to the refined aesthetic sensibilities of the residents?

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Old 10-26-2018, 04:16 PM   #32
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Guys,

"Maybe the residents don't want to watch all those campers, a slightly different set of aesthetics. operating there".

So maybe we should make all of Raquette Lake a gated community to avoid any offense by the great unwashed to the refined aesthetic sensibilities of the residents?

Skid
Wouldn't take much to make that happen as access is somewhat limited already, but don't forget to stop in the Tap Room, sit at the bar and wear a baseball cap and play the pill box dice game and act like one of the unwashed and they may let you have free access cause you're a "good ole boy".
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:46 PM   #33
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Wouldn't take much to make that happen as access is somewhat limited already, but don't forget to stop in the Tap Room, sit at the bar and wear a baseball cap and play the pill box dice game and act like one of the unwashed and they may let you have free access cause you're a "good ole boy".
What are you talkin' about Willis? There's two public campgrounds on the lake, and access points all over if you have a canoe. If you have a motor boat there are marinas you can pay to launch from.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:12 PM   #34
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Guys,

"Maybe the residents don't want to watch all those campers, a slightly different set of aesthetics. operating there".

So maybe we should make all of Raquette Lake a gated community to avoid any offense by the great unwashed to the refined aesthetic sensibilities of the residents?

Skid
The land owners might go for that, but the State is still allowing public use of the islands, points and campsites that are in public ownership, just instituting a policy that screens all that activity from view. All the campers I know practice personal hygiene, too, it gets too uncomfortable if one doesn't.

I just get a kick out of the double standards that get thrown around here!
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:34 PM   #35
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Here's the attitude I have heard from one rider: "I have spent over $10K on the machine, and $50K on a truck to haul it, and I pay taxes, so a $50 fine for riding where I want is pennies in the of cost of riding for the weekend."

I rest my case.
That doesn't make it legal, ethical, or right, or having a favorable outlook from those who do not care to partake in that activity.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:43 PM   #36
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That doesn't make it legal, ethical, or right, or having a favorable outlook from those who do not care to partake in that activity.
You may need some time alone in the wilderness. I know it can be difficult to determine sides without a scorecard, but I can see that you don't realize that I'm on your side when it comes to illegal activity within the park and disturbing the peaceful pastoral setting. There's a epithet in German chiseled into stone at a famous ski resort. Stoer nicht die waldes Frieden."
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:45 PM   #37
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What are you talkin' about Willis? There's two public campgrounds on the lake, and access points all over if you have a canoe. If you have a motor boat there are marinas you can pay to launch from.
You need to chill too. Obviously humor escapes you at times.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:48 PM   #38
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stören nicht die waldes Frieden."
Here's the best I can do with that: Najlepszy moment, żeby posadzić drzewo był 20 lat temu. Drugi najlepszy moment jest teraz.
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Old 10-27-2018, 01:04 AM   #39
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Here's the best I can do with that: Najlepszy moment, żeby posadzić drzewo był 20 lat temu. Drugi najlepszy moment jest teraz.
Jak bardzo prawdziwe. Śpiewam po polsku i kilku innych językach, w tym rosyjskim i chorwackim, nagrywając muzykę po polsku. Cytowany przeze mnie niemiecki, o którym pewnie już wiesz: "O wędrowniku, nie przeszkadzaj pokojowemu lasowi".
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