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Old 09-21-2004, 02:52 PM   #1
Gray Ghost
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Fall Trout Fishing in Ponds and Lakes

I am always trying to get some new advice for fall trout fishing. I enjoy trolling in my Hornbeck canoe. I was just wondering if others would share some of their most successful techniques for fall trout--especially in regard to trolling tactics in a canoe such as mine. What is the best way to catch fall trout from a canoe? Feedback is greatly appreciated. This weekend I am going to a lake that holds brookies and lakers, so species-specific advice is also welcomed.
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Old 09-21-2004, 06:45 PM   #2
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For Lakers, how about trolling with your ID? Gray Ghosts and their many color variants are good laker flies. I usually use them in the spring but no reason why they wouldn't work now. With your Hornbeck, troll at a moderate pace with a full sink flyline and with at least a size 2 10XL streamer. Vary depth by the amount of line you have out. My personal favorite fall laker streamer is a simple orange and white bucktail. Lakers love it. Troll around rocky shoals and points. The best time for lakers I've found is usually after the 1st week of october so you might be early for the shallow fishing. They gather on shoals to spawn and are often quite aggressive.

For Brook trout, this is highly proprietary information!
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Old 09-21-2004, 08:24 PM   #3
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What about lead core?

I talked to another guy who fishes the same lake as me and he uses lead core line. I put lead core on my fly reel and had some success with the gray ghost this summer. Do you use a lake clear wobbler or anything with the streamer? Thanks for the info.
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Old 09-21-2004, 08:26 PM   #4
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One more thing...

I've been using a size six gray ghost. Is this way too small?
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Old 09-22-2004, 09:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
I talked to another guy who fishes the same lake as me and he uses lead core line. I put lead core on my fly reel and had some success with the gray ghost this summer. Do you use a lake clear wobbler or anything with the streamer? Thanks for the info.
Nothing wrong with leadcore but unless you are using a 10 wt. flyrod I would think it might be overloading your setup, especially if you add a wabbler, flasher, or christmas tree. At the speeds that I like to troll for lakers in the fall, a lake clear will spin like crazy and probably not be effective. I don't run anything in front of the streamer but dodgers or christmas trees could be used.
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Old 09-22-2004, 09:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
I've been using a size six gray ghost. Is this way too small?
For me, size 6 is a casting size for streams. I use size 1 Martinek Gaelic supreme Hooks or size 2 Mustad 94720 for laker, landlocked salmon, rainbow trolling. Lakers will hit tarpon flies in the fall, so that should give you an idea of scaling your fly size.
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Old 09-22-2004, 11:04 AM   #7
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Thanks

So, are you willing to give out any advice on brookies? I had on a nice fish using the xmas tree-ghost combo. What do you recommend for leader size/pound test? Thanks again.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
So, are you willing to give out any advice on brookies?

Sorry!

I had on a nice fish using the xmas tree-ghost combo. What do you recommend for leader size/pound test? Thanks again.
For lakers, 3X flourocarbon minimum with a slow action flyrod and preferably a net. 2X if you have a fast action rod because you might break off during the hookset on a large fish. Here's my typical terminal rig for trolling streamers: Full sink flyline with loop connector, 6 feet of 0X flourocarbon, minimum 10 feet of 3X flourocarbon, then the fly. Some people use a minimum of 20 feet of mono between the flyline and the fly to make the flyline less visible to the fish. I think that's a bit excessive and expensive if you use flourocarbon.

Have fun and let us know how you do.
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Old 09-23-2004, 09:07 AM   #9
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Thanks again

Thanks again for the great info. If there is anyone else who'd like to chime in, it would be appreciated--especially in regard to brook trout as well. Thanks!
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Old 09-27-2004, 10:36 AM   #10
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Success

thanks for the advice, creekwader. It helped me land a beautiful, though small, fifteen inch lake trout over the weekend, which I released. It was the first trout I have ever caught while trolling with my Hornbeck. I am going to hit a pond that holds some nice Brown trout this weekend. Do you have any suggestions as to how I go about fishing them? Thanks again.
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Old 09-27-2004, 11:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
thanks for the advice, creekwader. It helped me land a beautiful, though small, fifteen inch lake trout over the weekend, which I released. It was the first trout I have ever caught while trolling with my Hornbeck. I am going to hit a pond that holds some nice Brown trout this weekend. Do you have any suggestions as to how I go about fishing them? Thanks again.
Glad to hear of your success. I don't do much brown trout fishing in lakes but a friend has had some luck using the same tactics as for lake trout.
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Old 09-27-2004, 02:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creekwader
For lakers, 3X flourocarbon minimum with a slow action flyrod and preferably a net. 2X if you have a fast action rod because you might break off during the hookset on a large fish. Here's my typical terminal rig for trolling streamers: Full sink flyline with loop connector, 6 feet of 0X flourocarbon, minimum 10 feet of 3X flourocarbon, then the fly. Some people use a minimum of 20 feet of mono between the flyline and the fly to make the flyline less visible to the fish. I think that's a bit excessive and expensive if you use flourocarbon.

Have fun and let us know how you do.
Now if I could just figure out what the Hell he just said, maybe I'll turn into a fisherman.

Scott, HELP!!
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Old 09-27-2004, 02:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk
Now if I could just figure out what the Hell he just said, maybe I'll turn into a fisherman.

Scott, HELP!!
Don't feel bad Hawk. I don't know what he said either and I've been trout fishing for the past 23 years, but I've never fly fished before.
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Last edited by lumberzac; 09-28-2004 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 09-27-2004, 04:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberzac
Don't feel bad Hawk. I don't know what he said either and I've been trout fishing for the past 23 years.
Guys,
Check this link out for tables of tippet sizes vs. breaking strength:

http://www.kman.com/umpqua.htm

The '3X' designation refers to a line diameter (0.008 inch). Not sure why the #X rating other than it's easier than writing 0.008 inch. Personally, I think the strength per diameter ratio is much more meaningful but then again I'm a geek.
Hope this helps.
-Scott
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:19 AM   #15
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Trout

I understood what you were talking about, even though I didn't use that exact setup this past weekend. I'm still looking for more trout suggestions from anyone who can provide them. I want to troll for all species--especially brook trout--but this seems to be classified information. What other streamers do people like to troll with besides the Gray Ghost? Creekwader, if you do somehow decide to be generous and offer me even one tiny brook trout suggestion, you can email me as well. I am surrounded by brook trout waters, but I don't know if my laker setup will work for them. Oh, and thanks for the great link.
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:25 AM   #16
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When I troll I normally use a Lake Clear Wobbler, a 36" monofilament leader with a worm on the end.

I’ve found that the trout tend to like the blue and silver wobbling spoon best.
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Old 09-28-2004, 12:29 PM   #17
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Leaders

What pound test mono do you use? I have been told before to use 16" from wobbler/xmas tree to the hook/fly. I see you use a longer leader. Does varying leader length make a big difference, and has my sixteen inch leader of mono been too short? Thanks for the info.
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Old 09-28-2004, 12:53 PM   #18
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I normally use 4lb test line. 16" will probably work but I wouldn't go shorter. I normaly start with a 36" (this is what I use for ice fishing) and then vary the length throughout the day to see what the fish want to hit on.
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
I understood what you were talking about, even though I didn't use that exact setup this past weekend. I'm still looking for more trout suggestions from anyone who can provide them. I want to troll for all species--especially brook trout--but this seems to be classified information. What other streamers do people like to troll with besides the Gray Ghost? Creekwader, if you do somehow decide to be generous and offer me even one tiny brook trout suggestion, you can email me as well. I am surrounded by brook trout waters, but I don't know if my laker setup will work for them. Oh, and thanks for the great link.
GG: Don't take it personally, I think Brook trout fishermen in general are quite secretive about methods and locations. Here's why I'm not inclined to discuss specific methods: 1. I've spent years trying different things and have finally found something that works consistently. Not to be selfish but I just can't justify in my mind telling total strangers my methods when it's taken a ton of time and effort to obtain them. This stuff isn't rocket science anyway so I would expect that a reasonably skilled angler can figure out some of these tactics. 2. Some of what I do was passed on to me by people who I respect that indicated that they would like these things to stay private.

One brook trout tactic that I will share because it's been written about in national magazines and is fairly obvious is casting into shore with flies. This only works in certain ponds but ones with deadfalls that extend into deep water seem to be best. I usually use sink tip flyline and a weighted fly. Just simply position your boat within casting distance of structure and cast into it. I usually let the fly sink down to near bottom then retreive as fast as I can with short 2-4 inch strips. Do that for a couple seconds then stop. If a trout is following this will trigger a strike. If the fast retrieve doesn't work, try slower speeds. Flies that work well for this are muddlers, mickey finns, woolly buggers, damsel and dragonfly nymphs. Be sure to retrieve the fly all the way to the boat and when you do, lift it to the surface like an emerging insect and even drag it across the water so it leaves a wake. Sounds silly but it works.
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:50 PM   #20
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I'm by no means a fly fishing pro (i've only been fly fishing for just over 2 weeks), and in fact, I've only ever trolled with bait in saltwater many moons ago, so I have no input there, but...

I've been out in search of brown trout local to me (~35 minutes south of the blue line) wading on Oriskany Creek. I've landed a few medium-small browns (ranging from 10" to 13"), but... I've caught more brookies than browns (they're pretty small here, like 5-8"). Anyhow, here they're both taking the same things from me.... Copper Johns and Zug Bugs both on a dead drift. No one wants my hare's ear nymphs (save for minnows on west canada creek), even though I got a local tip to use those. I haven't seen a trout rise on my local waters since I bought a fly rod.... Figures, heh, hence all the nymphing. So yeah, that probably doesn't offer much help on the still water but it's my little tiny bit o' newbie input.

...there is some secrecy involved with fishing for brookies?? I know some fishing locations are often kept a deep dark secret, but... I thought brookies were an easier catch than other trout? ....Am I wrong?
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