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Marcellus Shale: An Environmental Disaster In The Making

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  • He would have been "forced" to take the royalties anyway...if you don't sign you are pooled into an average royalties payout because they still drill under your property.

    NOW take all that money paid out and put it into renewable energy, ..solar, wind,...conservation, which are all long term..as opposed to short term...duh...
    Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

    When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
    Henry David Thoreau

    CL50-#23

    Comment


    • Thats true Chairrock. It all of your neighbors sign, they are going to get the gas on your property. I think most people say hey, I may as well sign a lease and get upfront money.

      Comment


      • My neighbors don't get the gas. The Companies get the gas. I can't stop them according to NYS Law.DEC gives out the permits ACCORDING to NYS law. So it it is the elected official who have the say....BOY THAT MAKES ME FEEL CONFIDENT>>>>>>THERE IS NO CORRUPTION IN NYS!
        Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

        When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
        Henry David Thoreau

        CL50-#23

        Comment


        • BIG BUMPERS!!! anyway...

          Originally posted by chairrock View Post
          Picture this in the Finger Lakes farm and wine country...
          From shaleshock.com
          Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

          When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
          Henry David Thoreau

          CL50-#23

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Holdstrong View Post
            http://capitalregion.ynn.com/content...hydrofracking/

            Assembly approves temporary ban on hydrofracking
            Good move if you ask me, even though I would like to see this resource utilized. While I think there's definitely been some degree of knee-jerk opposition that will never go away, there seems to be too many environmental risks and dangers at this time. I'm hoping that someday the technology will get to the point where the gas can be safely tapped. Too bad our neighbors to the south (PA) are serving as the testing grounds for the technology, but hey, that's their choice, and they have a long history of not so green industry and extraction.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by fisher39 View Post
              Good move if you ask me, even though I would like to see this resource utilized. While I think there's definitely been some degree of knee-jerk opposition that will never go away, there seems to be too many environmental risks and dangers at this time. I'm hoping that someday the technology will get to the point where the gas can be safely tapped. Too bad our neighbors to the south (PA) are serving as the testing grounds for the technology, but hey, that's their choice, and they have a long history of not so green industry and extraction.
              I just recently watched a piece about this fragging on TV, I think it may have been on 60 minutes.

              It's a unanamous opinion among all the scientists, geologists and environmentalist other then those directly involved with the energy customers that the question is not IF there is any danger, but HOW much danger there is and since this has not been going on long enough there is no way to judge future repercussions.

              The dangers that it is KNOWN to produce are such that there should even be a doubt as to whether to allow it or not. Tp tpo that off, if the process is so safe, as the energy companies (One being Haliburton who usually gathers with rats) claim, why are they unwilling to release the information on what chemicals they are actually pumping into the shale beds? An even bigger question is, why don't the elected officials who are making the decision adopt a "No Tell, No Drill" posture?

              One thing that was not addressed but i wondered about was since the process literally "Fractures" the shale beds, would this not have some kind of effect on the geology over time, possible even increasing the damage done from earthquakes?

              hawk
              "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

              Comment


              • we live in a area wich has recently been flooded with gas chasers. Many are land rich and money poor . The state has done little to help many farms that have hung in there over the years. Its to bad locals are head to head creating hatfield and macoy problems for each other . farmers who have signed have lost rights to cut hay and cultivate other lands owned by those who oppose by not honoring verbal leases and such . This making it even harder for them to provide for there families . General development drove many taxes up in our area post 9-11 and transplants from out of town have very little clue how rural america survives. Many homes are seasonal and year round residents find there tax bills going up and up. when jobs are fewer and fewer. Some local farmers are just trying to hold on to their family name and land. We recently found out there is a fraking well slated to be done a mile from us we will be able to see the equipment from the top of our back hill.
                They just nitrogen fraked one "ross 1 well" in a area i hunted and fished when growing up about 20 miles from here. Friends of ours from pa tell the horror stories of whole towns and counties tore up from start to finish of these operations. The govt is letting us down with the secret recipes these companies have for fraking fluids and there right not to disclose these recipies due to trade secret laws. I will say my bussiness has been contacted for underpinning and frame errection services and we will most likely bid these projects . i cant stand multi million dollar projects in my home area and then see all out of state contractors doing the work. In the end we loose twice . Im not into the pollution and land destruction but why loose your economy to.
                Pa. their long history of not so green extraction comes from large demand by people like ourselves. The use and not worry till its in your own back yard idea. Many are guilty same as if you like gold jewlery , diamonds , other stones and minerals . Extraction is terriable and many hands have blood on them before it gets to you to wear or use .

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 40dog View Post
                  we live in a area wich has recently been flooded with gas chasers. Many are land rich and money poor . The state has done little to help many farms that have hung in there over the years. Its to bad locals are head to head creating hatfield and macoy problems for each other . farmers who have signed have lost rights to cut hay and cultivate other lands owned by those who oppose by not honoring verbal leases and such . This making it even harder for them to provide for there families . General development drove many taxes up in our area post 9-11 and transplants from out of town have very little clue how rural america survives. Many homes are seasonal and year round residents find there tax bills going up and up. when jobs are fewer and fewer. Some local farmers are just trying to hold on to their family name and land. We recently found out there is a fraking well slated to be done a mile from us we will be able to see the equipment from the top of our back hill.
                  They just nitrogen fraked one "ross 1 well" in a area i hunted and fished when growing up about 20 miles from here. Friends of ours from pa tell the horror stories of whole towns and counties tore up from start to finish of these operations. The govt is letting us down with the secret recipes these companies have for fraking fluids and there right not to disclose these recipies due to trade secret laws. I will say my bussiness has been contacted for underpinning and frame errection services and we will most likely bid these projects . i cant stand multi million dollar projects in my home area and then see all out of state contractors doing the work. In the end we loose twice . Im not into the pollution and land destruction but why loose your economy to.
                  Pa
                  . their long history of not so green extraction comes from large demand by people like ourselves. The use and not worry till its in your own back yard idea. Many are guilty same as if you like gold jewlery , diamonds , other stones and minerals . Extraction is terriable and many hands have blood on them before it gets to you to wear or use .
                  You're not Losing YOUR economy to Pa. PA will neither take away from or add to your economy whether there is fagging here, or there.

                  The whole idea that you will lose out if someone else gets to frag before you is just the usual Bull**** that is used to try to preesure you into allowing them to reap the wealth (of which you get a pittance) and then run when it all runs out. That leaves you holding the bag and having to deal with the aftermath.

                  What Pennsylvania or anyone else does or doesn't do should never enter into the equation. If it's a bad deal, it's still a bad deal if someone else does it. Hell, look at Pennsylvania, they have raped the resources there (coal) and shown little concern for the people or for mine safety. So, If anything, they're a perfect example as to why not to do it. Same with WV and Colorado.

                  Hawk

                  Hawk
                  "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                  Comment


                  • We need to keep in mind that if the NY portion of the Marcellus shale has any value, it will always be valuable. As some states appear to be gung-ho for this, why not let NY assets appreciate? The technologies should improve, become proven, in fact, to the betterment of NY, and it will be worth more $.

                    Comment


                    • Just to expand on a point.

                      Because someone else acts irresponsibly, it does not justify our doing so.

                      For instance:
                      One of the things I hear all the time as an EXCUSE (not a reason) for not reducing the pollutants, etc that we (The US) put into the air is: "Well, China isn't so why should we"?

                      there are a whole bunch of reasons why we should.

                      1. It will REDUCE pollution, and improve air quality whether China does or not, our actions will still have an effect.

                      2. As with Green Energy, New technology that will be invented to cut the costs of cutting pollution will make it cheaper and will encourage others to reduce the air pollution.

                      3. But maybe the most important, By setting an Example. I always hear that "America is the greatest country in the world" and that "American technology leads the world (It really doesn't you know). So maybe we should pony up and prove it. Otherwise we are just a nation of hypocrites. After all, it's not words, but deeds that tells who we are.

                      I think that in order to reverse all the things we are dealing with, the economy, ethics, morality, climate change, pollution, destruction of natural resources, it's time to take it out of the hands of the politicians (All of them are but tools of Big Business and Big Money) and become proactive about long term thinking.

                      How do we achieve that? By being responsible, sensible, decent and proactive citizens.
                      "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by redhawk View Post
                        Tp tpo that off, if the process is so safe, as the energy companies (One being Haliburton who usually gathers with rats) claim, why are they unwilling to release the information on what chemicals they are actually pumping into the shale beds?

                        hawk

                        Just read this in the local weekly paper.... it list the chemicals used...http://www.observer-review.com/news.php?viewStory=1838
                        Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

                        When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
                        Henry David Thoreau

                        CL50-#23

                        Comment


                        • Originally Posted by redhawk:
                          Tp tpo that off, if the process is so safe, as the energy companies (One being Haliburton who usually gathers with rats) claim, why are they unwilling to release the information on what chemicals they are actually pumping into the shale beds?

                          hawk
                          Along the same lines, why are the gas/oil companies requiring that the state legislation allowing for the drilling hold the companies' harmless for any environmental damage they cause? If it is 'so safe" they should be willing to back up each of their wells with a $1 trillion bond. Put their money where their mouth is.
                          "There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service

                          My trail journal: DuctTape's Journal

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DuctTape View Post
                            Along the same lines, why are the gas/oil companies requiring that the state legislation allowing for the drilling hold the companies' harmless for any environmental damage they cause? If it is 'so safe" they should be willing to back up each of their wells with a $1 trillion bond. Put their money where their mouth is.
                            So true Russ, BUT will any amount of money ever restore the damage done totally? I tend to think it will just be a band-aide that almost makes it better, but there will still be scars...

                            There is so much more than the frakking chemicals...the surface disturbance and related above ground activities, water use, used water disposal, road degradation, soil compaction,flora destruction, it just goes on and on...
                            Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

                            When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
                            Henry David Thoreau

                            CL50-#23

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by chairrock View Post
                              So true Russ, BUT will any amount of money ever restore the damage done totally? I tend to think it will just be a band-aide that almost makes it better, but there will still be scars...

                              There is so much more than the frakking chemicals...the surface disturbance and related above ground activities, water use, used water disposal, road degradation, soil compaction,flora destruction, it just goes on and on...
                              I agree. There is no amount of money that can undo the damage that WILL be caused. I simply cannot stand for the hypocrisy of the "it is perfectly safe, but if it isn't don't make us pay for it" mentality.
                              "There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service

                              My trail journal: DuctTape's Journal

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by chairrock View Post
                                Just read this in the local weekly paper.... it list the chemicals used...http://www.observer-review.com/news.php?viewStory=1838
                                Oh Good. I'll sleep easier. After all it's from Halliburton so we can take them at their word.

                                Hawk
                                "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

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