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  • Send some of those bucks are way! I belong to a club on your Eastern border.

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    • Mallard, Only if you reciprocate......Since you border us , come on over for our club picnic on Aug. 4th and introduce yourself. Gate will be open for the day(about a mile in).

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      • Originally posted by Buckladd View Post
        Clubs have limited options mainly because of insurance. You're either a member or your not, unless you are a guest of a member.
        I'm not sure I buy that. Many of the snowmobile trails in the ADK's run through private land. What is the liability issue with that and how is it resolved?

        Plus, there is always the conservation easement route, which usually absolves the landowner of any liability for hunters and hikers getting hurt.



        Originally posted by Buckladd View Post
        I'm not sure the "model" is dying but many leased camps have obviously been displaced when their leases are sold to the state and this has affected their overall numbers.
        That is exactly what I was getting at. The landowners are increasingly pushing their land back to state ownership for financial reasons. When that happens, camps close or move out, many roads get closed down and we have a few years of people yelling how "forever wild" won't be honored unless everything is turned into wilderness.

        If those landowners, and the leaseholders, want to keep the status quo in terms of management, they'll have to find a way to invite public access (conservation easement or fee-based). Otherwise, the land will eventually get sold back to the state.

        Canada and Maine seem to have a decent understanding of how to allow multiple uses of state and private logging lands. The North Maine Woods (all private land) is a particularly good example of how forestry can be compatible with multiple uses (to include hunting and camping). Whereas here in NY, it just seems that everyone wants to have their own piece of pie without sharing....that mentality won't serve them well for the longterm.

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        • I learned of this while working in Finland for six years.
          Similar laws in Norway and Sweden.

          http://www.ym.fi/en-US/Latest_news/P...ans_right(4484)

          We went backpacking in Lapland and would sometimes come to a private cabin on state land. It turns out that anyone can build a cabin and leave it open for the public. So it's common to build a cabin with two doors. One is locked the other available to the public. Same with the sauna by the water. Simply cut as much firewood as you used.

          Not only could you camp and cut firewood, but I came across a Lapp who was mining for gold in a creek. H was using both wooden shoots and panning. Found some the previous year at that location.

          Don't think it'll work in the states........different mentality than Scandinavia.
          Last edited by dockless; 06-11-2018, 10:15 AM.

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          • The key is in the second sentence of the booklet,"Finland is a sparsely populated country..."

            Most of the rules apply here on Public land but too many people think the rules only apply to others. The rules there are not extended to "yards", the Whitney's likely have a bigger yard, LOL. Also, while it may be OK to cut firewood on Public land as it is here if it is dead and down, you can't even take dead timber on private land there, only twigs.

            I would disagree on Norway, having researched costs to Atlantic Salmon fish there, that is a strictly maintained private fishery that costs many ducets per day to access. It may be the same in Finland, as the booklet says you cannot fish in the fast water sections of rivers and streams un der these rules.

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            • Originally posted by Bounder45 View Post
              I'm not sure I buy that. Many of the snowmobile trails in the ADK's run through private land. What is the liability issue with that and how is it resolved?
              The snowmobile club that maintains the trail covers the insurance on the trail through the NYS Snowmobile Assoc. There is pretty much no liability on the land owner for a snowmobile trail unless they were to do something deliberately negligent to the trail.

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              • Do you have to be a member of the NYS Snowmobile group to use the trails?

                I know you have to buy a permit to use many of the trails on private land. I don't see why that same model can be replicated for hikers and/or hunters who want to use these logging roads to get into more remote areas of the ADK's.

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                • Originally posted by Bounder45 View Post
                  I'm not sure I buy that. Many of the snowmobile trails in the ADK's run through private land. What is the liability issue with that and how is it resolved?
                  I'm not a snowmobiler, but I believe the clubs have their own insurance. And/or the state purchases an easement from the landowner, not the club, for snowmobiling. I also know there are some easement lands in the Adirondacks that are open for other forms of recreation, except during big game season. Each one is different.

                  I personally don't feel the big timber companies sell their land because they're hard up for cash. They see a business opportunity and they capitalize on it; especially if future timber production potential is not lucrative compared to the financial offer.

                  If you're looking for hiking opportunities on leases, I think you'd need to approach it on a large scale. Say for example, ADK gets with Lyme Timber and makes some sort of arrangement. Or, you get DEC to go to bat for you. I doubt the clubs would ever be interested in such a thing as someone would have to manage it, and they may not want the extra company during the summer months.

                  Anyway, if it's something you feel strongly about, then look into it.
                  Life's short, hunt hard!

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                  • Originally posted by Bounder45 View Post
                    Do you have to be a member of the NYS Snowmobile group to use the trails?

                    I know you have to buy a permit to use many of the trails on private land. I don't see why that same model can be replicated for hikers and/or hunters who want to use these logging roads to get into more remote areas of the ADK's.
                    You do not have to be a member of a snowmobile club to use the trails, the other option is to pay $55 more to DMV when you register your snowmobile. If you pay the $30 to be a member of a snowmobile club you get a voucher to bring to DMV and only pay $45 vs $100 for the snowmobile registration.

                    The only place that I am aware of in New York that charges for an extra permit fee is the Town of Webb for snowmobiling in the Old Forge area. Other than there you can ride on any trail in New York regardless which snowmobile club maintains the trail as long as the snowmobile is registered and insured.

                    I am sure the model you are describing for hikers/hunters would work if you were to get one of the major land owners involved. International Paper used to have pretty much the same permit system you are looking for in the Speculator Tree Farm and Perkins Clearing areas. You could stop at designated local businesses and buy a permit to use their lands ranging from 1 day to I believe a month and for individual use or family use. That was back in the 90's before International Paper sold the land and conservation easements were put on the land. So it could work but I believe the major timber companies prefer club leases since it's a multi year contract usually and seems like it should be guaranteed revenue as long as someone is leasing the lands.

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                    • Originally posted by bobadkhunter View Post
                      Mallard, Only if you reciprocate......Since you border us , come on over for our club picnic on Aug. 4th and introduce yourself. Gate will be open for the day(about a mile in).
                      Thanks for the offer Bob. I have met a few gents from Robinwood, all nice guys. They even helped us out a couple years ago trapping some nuisance beavers.

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                      • Your Welcome...standing offer. I was the trapper, so if you met the trapper you met me.

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                        • Originally posted by Mallard1100 View Post
                          Thanks for the offer Bob. I have met a few gents from Robinwood, all nice guys. They even helped us out a couple years ago trapping some nuisance beavers.


                          What clubs are out in that area? I’ve spent many a day hiking down the roads near lake Lila, and despite all I’ve said, I do actually have interest joining a club or lease that is set up on a remote piece of land.




                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                          • Not on the Long Lake -Tupper route, but Newcomb Sportsman's Club is always advertising for members in NY Outdoor News. The Robinwood website also indicates they have openings.

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                            • Originally posted by Bounder45 View Post
                              What clubs are out in that area? I’ve spent many a day hiking down the roads near lake Lila, and despite all I’ve said, I do actually have interest joining a club or lease that is set up on a remote piece of land.
                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              There are quite a few clubs in the area. A father and son own a large tract of land in the vicinity of Lake Lila rd and I believe there may be another camp or 2 down Lila rd although I have never met them. Send me a PM for some more intel.

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                              • PM's sent.

                                Is there a way to view land ownership information online? If, for example, I had an interest in reaching out to a landowner, or leaseholder, for inquiries about leasing opportunities for a particular area, is there a database which contains point of contact information?

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