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Old 04-05-2017, 01:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mspaci View Post
Another fact is that a spring season is really a recent development, & that it was usually always a fall winter hunt in traditional turkey states. JMHO, Mike
Have you ever read a book called the Old Pro Turkey Hunter? The author learned spring hunting from an old timer in the south. No camo, no dekes, no choke tubes; just calling and woodsmanship.
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:34 PM   #22
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The fact is that predation took some but disease from over population took more. The biggest factor however is that we had some bad nesting seasons consecutively. The fall season & killing a few hens had NO effect on the population. No one gave a thought to the fall hunter, or the fall turkey dogger.
That's my view on the matter as well. I don't think this most recent decline is really the result of too much human hunting pressure. Also, like you pointed out, the population peaked in prior years and likely got bigger than what the environment could normally support. While the decline from that peak might look bad in the context of a decade or so, over the long run it could just be a slight hiccup in the population's long term trend as it rebalances itself.
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:40 PM   #23
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At the end of the day, we're talking about an estimated game population 160k-180k in NY, so it's not like the gradual downward trend is a real emergency; animal populations routinely go through different cycles of up's and down's (usually for a variety of reasons). And improving the population by 2k is barely a drop in the bucket.

I don't see a need to eliminate the hen harvest (at least not yet), mostly because human hunting doesn't seem to be the main reason for the gradual decline in #'s. Rather I think the DEC should continue to engage with local landowners to promote better turkey habitat, the same way they've done for other game species in the past. And as well, the DEC needs to encourage more hunters, in certain areas, to go after Turkey predators (like raccoon and coyote). This is a topic that has been brought up before, but when certain predator populations grow, they can have an impact on other game species in a particular region.
bounder,
not sure of the source of the 160k - 180k turkey numbers = ~ 1 turkey for every 0.3 sq. mi.
the turkey population numbers of 300,000 in another post from earlier times was equal to 1 turkey for every ~0.18 sq. mi.

did the source numbers represent pre or post hatch numbers?
how were the numbers calculated?
if it's calculated anything like the algorithm for deer numbers - it would include an elusive number of how many deer killed were reported since a high percentage of deer hunters don't report their kill.

the other missing part is how many young turkeys are taken by raptors like the red tailed hawk and large owls. it seems we've got far more red tails per sq. mile than turkeys.

and speaking about regs here's what one disconnected Adirondack resident of 41 years said about the fishing regs. -

'On March 26, ECOs Nathan Favreau and Jeffrey Hovey were on snowmobile patrol between Essex and Franklin counties to check for illegal ice fishing activity on remote trout ponds. Soon after the ECOs began the patrol they encountered a snowmobile parked at Pine Pond. Ice fishing and the use of live bait are prohibited on the 50-acre trout and salmon pond, located in the High Peaks Wilderness. ECOs Favreau and Hovey observed the owner of the snowmobile ice fishing with tip-ups and found that the man was also using live minnows for bait. The man claimed to be unaware of the fishing regulations and had never opened the New York State Fishing Regulation Guide in his 41 years of living in the Adirondacks. He was issued tickets for ice fishing in closed waters, possession of baitfish in prohibited waters, and failure to exhibit a baitfish receipt. All of the charges are returnable to the Town of Harrietstown Court on April 17.'

of course he/she's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and a jury of his/her peers.
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Old 04-08-2017, 09:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Buckladd View Post
Have you ever read a book called the Old Pro Turkey Hunter? The author learned spring hunting from an old timer in the south. No camo, no dekes, no choke tubes; just calling and woodsmanship.
I havent, will check it out, Thanks
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:56 PM   #25
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bounder,
not sure of the source of the 160k - 180k turkey numbers = ~ 1 turkey for every 0.3 sq. mi.
the turkey population numbers of 300,000 in another post from earlier times was equal to 1 turkey for every ~0.18 sq. mi.

did the source numbers represent pre or post hatch numbers?
how were the numbers calculated?
if it's calculated anything like the algorithm for deer numbers - it would include an elusive number of how many deer killed were reported since a high percentage of deer hunters don't report their kill.

the other missing part is how many young turkeys are taken by raptors like the red tailed hawk and large owls. it seems we've got far more red tails per sq. mile than turkeys.
The estimate on Turkey #'s came from this DEC report: http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_...eyresearch.pdf

These population estimates are almost always conservative, meaning the biologists tend to err on the low-side, as a built in safety margin. I can't speak on how they came up with the numbers for this specific report, but normally such population estimates come from field surveys and hunter sightings and estimating #'s based on habitat, food sources, ect. You could probably contact the DEC to get a more in-depth explanation of how they come up with those numbers.

I can't speak to raptor predation on Turkey, but I'd imagine in places like the ADK's, it's not that high due to the tree coverage they Turkeys have.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:19 PM   #26
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Have you ever read a book called the Old Pro Turkey Hunter? The author learned spring hunting from an old timer in the south. No camo, no dekes, no choke tubes; just calling and woodsmanship.
Sounds like a good read but expensive... used they start at ~$70.

On a similar note: In my highly suburban neighborhood of Niskayuna two of these flew over my head this evening and promptly roosted in my white pines:

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Old 04-14-2017, 10:33 PM   #27
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[QUOTE=bioguide;257633]Sounds like a good read but expensive... used they start at ~$70.

On a similar note: In my highly suburban neighborhood of Niskayuna two of these flew over my head this evening and promptly roosted in my white pines: QUOTE]
Wow, no kidding? I got my copy back in the 80s. There's an entire Facebook page dedicated to that book. It is a good read.
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:55 AM   #28
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Goodness....been up here scouting around the last few days and I have never seen so many turkeys...anywhere. There some places where there are multiple flocks in the same field...growing up in the North Country I never saw any turkeys here... that's not the case now.
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:50 PM   #29
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Goodness....been up here scouting around the last few days and I have never seen so many turkeys...anywhere. There some places where there are multiple flocks in the same field...growing up in the North Country I never saw any turkeys here... that's not the case now.
It's not uncommon to see them on the roadsides as you drive through the ADK's. The trick is finding them out in the wild where you have the opportunity to take a safe and legal shot....it's not so easy to find them up there when hunting in the woods.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:11 PM   #30
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It's not uncommon to see them on the roadsides as you drive through the ADK's. The trick is finding them out in the wild where you have the opportunity to take a safe and legal shot....it's not so easy to find them up there when hunting in the woods.
What draws them to the road?
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:43 AM   #31
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What draws them to the road?
Grassy edges with seeds, greens and bugs.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:44 PM   #32
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Grassy edges with seeds, greens and bugs.
Makes sense, thanks.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:22 PM   #33
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Also small stones - turkeys need to eat grit so that their gizzards can digest the more fibrous parts of their diet.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:20 AM   #34
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I drove route 8 tuesday and yesterday, lots of birds out. Near the old Bear Path Inn there was a flock of hens and two toms all puffed up and bouncing off each other. I was surprised that there were so many out and about since the weather was cold, grey, and rainy. But from Plattsburgh to Rome, there were plenty out in fields on the roadsides.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:21 PM   #35
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In three days of driving around in St. Lawrence and Clinton Counties I counted well over 250 birds.
I also had success spotting and calling birds at a few of my spots...numbers in Northern NY are dramatically better than Western NY....
Hopefully things will dry out soon. A good nesting season can go a long way towards getting things back on track.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:31 AM   #36
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I've been seeing plenty of birds in Warren, Washington and Saratoga Counties. It looks like the flocks are just starting to split up around here, just this week.

Is anyone going out with a kid this weekend? I have to work on Sunday but am taking a 13-year-old on his first turkey hunt with his grandfather on Saturday. I've got a spot picked out where I've had some good luck the past few years but the birds have been really unpredictable and I'm unable to roost tonight, so we'll just see what happens.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:24 AM   #37
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Feather and Tin Tossers aren't the only ones with a count down ....
Once this short spring goose season passes many of us are counting the days to spring turkey season.
Hopefully the fairly light winter has helped the flocks flourish....

Although the turkey population in Northern NY is doing better than elsewhere in the state, overall the turkey population is down significantly. To remedy this the DEC has done surveys and made some minor reg changes. They altered the fall season beginning 2015 in response to the shortage of birds. They are monitoring the affect of that change over a 4 year period...
https://www.prolinebowstrings.com/sh...ble-package-2/

They hope to strike a balance between keeping hunters happy and helping to improve the flocks.... but, they cannot control most of the causes of population decline… winter, spring rain, predation…

What if they did the one obvious thing that is guaranteed to improve the flocks? Halting the hen harvest would immediately improve the population. A hen will lay 10 to 12 eggs per year. For each hen that is allowed to survive the fall season an additional 3 to 4 poults, some of them hens, may live to reproduce. Elimination of the hen harvest could improve the statewide population by 2,000 birds in the first year alone! The improvement in the flock increases with each year that we allow the hen population to grow. Why wouldn’t we want to do that?

So here's a question… in the interest of helping the turkey population recover, would you support eliminating the harvest of hens?
I for one have no problem taking only toms I think the younger generations should be allowed to take a hen
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