Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Hiking in the Adirondacks
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-10-2018, 04:45 PM   #1
Kevin7
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 60
Camping near Blueberry Cobbles next week?

I'm planning to set up base camp near Blueberry Cobbles next week to hike Rocky Peak Ridge. Does anyone know if there are decent tent spots up there (not official, of course)? Might I also find water nearby at this time of the year?
Kevin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 07:45 PM   #2
Trail Boss
Member
 
Trail Boss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 902
You'll be passing an intermittent brook (likely to be flowing now) along the way to Blueberry Cobbles. The East Trail swings away from the brook and heads northeast to a flattish area at ~1350' elevation (it then turns west and rises to Blueberry Cobbles) That flattish area is a col and probably offers sound reasonably flat terrain for tenting (> 150' off-trail).

Flip between GaiaTopo and the Satellite layer to get an idea of the lay of the land.
https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?layer=G...3.6379&zoom=16
__________________
Looking for views!
Trail Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 09:29 PM   #3
Kevin7
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 60
Thanks for the tips, Trail Boss.
I was hoping to camp quite close to the Blueberry Cobbles so I could enjoy hanging out there. I am intrigued by the stream that runs to the north of the Cobbles. Though a good 1000 feet off the trail, it appears to flow at the same level as the shallow col between Blueberry Cobbles and Mason Mountain. Might try to find a camp spot in that col.

Special thanks for pointing me to the Gaia GPS maps. Looks like a great hiking map resource I was not aware of.
Kevin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:38 AM   #4
Trail Boss
Member
 
Trail Boss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 902
The High Peaks trails you see in Gaia's topo maps are derived from OpenStreetMap (OSM). There are several other maps that source their information from OSM:
https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#....1108!-73.8745
https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.1...174&z=12&b=mbt
http://www.movescount.com/map?lat=44...suunto-offroad

Over a period of ~18 months, I mapped 95% of the trails in the High Peaks in OSM (using GPS data from personal surveys and trusted sources).

I fine-tuned (most of) the High Peaks trails using satellite imagery and the 2017 version of Strava Heatmaps (before they restricted access to detailed map views).
https://www.strava.com/heatmap#12.81....14106/hot/all

The result is an accurate, detailed network of High Peaks hiking trails visible on any map that uses OSM (including GOS apps on phones like Gaia GPS, Locus Map, etc).

FWIW, in OSM, you can reveal the details of each object to learn more about its characteristics (including the name of the map-editor who created/modified it). For example, here's the start of the East Trail to Giant:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31....6463&layers=C

I've included as much detail as I could collect for the East Trail (the walkway over outlet of Marie-Louise Pond, names of the notches along the way, location of viewpoints, location of bare-rock areas, etc). However, I may have missed a few things, so if you encounter something you feel should be on the map, please let me know. For example, I'm not certain if there are trail-signs at the junctions of the Blueberry Cobbles Bypass Trail. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/371585742 I'd appreciate it if you let me know after you visit the area.
__________________
Looking for views!
Trail Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2018, 07:12 AM   #5
Kevin7
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 60
Trail Boss, you are an amazing font of information. I have used your maps in the past, but I don't think I ever thanked you for the wonderful work you have done.
Thank you!
Regarding the Blueberry Cobbles Bypass Trail, yes, there are signs at both junctions. However, the signs at the west junction are faded and completely illegible!
You mention losing detailed map access in the Strava Heatmap. I found it was only necessary to create a free login to restore the details. Are you talking about something else?
Just before Blueberry Cobbles, there is an excellent viewpoint just above the one marked on the map and on the opposite side of the trail. You can see it clearly on the Strava Heatmap. I watched a glorious sunrise from this northeast facing ledge at 5:30 AM Friday morning.
The endless views between Bald Peak and Rocky Peak Ridge point out the problem of using "viewpoint" symbols. The map would be hopelessly cluttered if you tried to mark all the viewpoints here. I'm wondering if it would be better to use a ledge outline to mark ALL viewpoints (instead of a viewpoint symbol). I'm thinking a two-tone system would be good. For example, on the Blueberry Cobbles, most of the ledge would be marked in an "obscured ledge" tone, while the great view at the west end would be marked with the "open ledge" tone.

Last edited by Kevin7; 05-19-2018 at 08:18 AM..
Kevin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2018, 08:34 AM   #6
Trail Boss
Member
 
Trail Boss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 902
When Strava released the 2017 version of its Heatmap, its URL could be used by any map-viewing, or map-editing, software down to the its maximum zoom level.

Then it was discovered that some dim-witted military personnel publicly posted their Strava runs and now the entire world could see the location of military bases, including the outline of their patrol routes (i.e. ostensibly along their running routes). Duh!

Strava's solution was ... hackneyed. For everyone without a Strava account, they restricted the zoom level so you couldn't magnify the map to reveal fine details. On the other hand, if you have a free Strava account, you can login and zoom to max level. HOWEVER, the "login" part effectively cuts off access to map-viewing and map-editing software which rarely support authentication of this sort ... and Strava has no plans to accommodate them.

There is a workaround. You login with a browser and find the cookie portion that holds your credentials. Then you add that in your map viewing/editing software. HOWEVER, this only works if the software allows for the addition of connection information beyond a simply URL ... and many don't.

For example, as far as I know, the three principal means of editing OpenStreetMap (ID editor, Potlatch, and JOSM) don't allow for it. The navigation app I use (Locus Map) does allow for the inclusion of the connection credentials.
http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/strava...at-higher-zoom
However, it *is* a kludge because eventually the credentials expire and you have to repeat the process (not a solution for people who are squeamish about editing config files).


Regarding viewpoints, they ought to be used sparingly, carefully, and with respect to local land-management practices (that last part is true for trails as well). Not every cow-path leading to a view merits inclusion in OSM.

You have to consider the fact that the map may drive hiker-traffic to a viewpoint. Mark the location of every small, nascent viewpoint and, before long, they're likely to become expanded, eroded viewpoints. Long story short, the map-editor needs to make responsible decisions. Not every nook and cranny needs to be shown on a map.

A viewpoint marker is used to indicate:

Quote:
A place worth visiting, often high, with a good view of surrounding countryside or notable buildings.
From: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/...sm%3Dviewpoint

As you said, if a trail runs along an open ridge and offers continuous scenic views, that's the norm not the exception and there's no need to mark it with viewpoints. Otherwise, everything above treeline would be choked with viewpoint markers.


The viewpoint marker conforms with OSM's standards. Although your "two-tone" proposal is interesting, it's a departure from OSM's standards. It's important to adhere to OSM's guidelines to ensure world-wide map consistency (but you can make proposals and there's a process for creating new standards).

I recall I corrected another map-editor's work because it "misapplied the standards". To show the south side of Saddleback is steep and dangerous, they used something that made the area show up as red in OSM. That "something" was "Military Firing Range"! Not good. I explained each trail (and section of trail) can be assigned a difficulty rating (color code) based on the Swiss Alpine Club standard. That section merits "alpine_hiking".
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/491762519

BTW, there's a lot more information contained within OSM than what is shown in their garden-variety map or even in the many maps derived from OSM's data. It's left to the discretion of the map-maker and the map's intended purpose. One of the most detailed OSM-based maps is OpenAndroMaps.
https://www.openandromaps.org/en/

For example, it shows a trail's marker-color, difficulty rating, and the location of sign-posts, viewpoints, campsites, privies, trail-registers, bridges, fords, ladders and cables .. basically all the hiking-related things I entered into OSM (see sample image in the following link).
Stairs and Ladders and Ropes Oh My!
__________________
Looking for views!
Trail Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 12:29 PM   #7
MTVhike
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Elizabethtown
Posts: 146
There is a sign at least one end of the bypass trail, but one friend of mine got turned around there (he didn't notice the sign), and when he got to the other end of the bypass, went back!
MTVhike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.