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Old 10-01-2013, 05:13 PM   #101
Odyssey
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I don’t quite follow the reasoning. Rules yes, application no.
If I were to paddle to a lake and decide to take a hike, could I return hours later to find my canoe borrowed, or worse?
Should I lock it to prevent someone from borrowing it, or should I risk it, just in case someone is offended with my locking it? How long might someone decide to borrow my canoe, and why should I be okay with that? How can you reasonably tell if a canoe has been recently cached vs recently stashed?
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:30 PM   #102
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I don’t quite follow the reasoning. Rules yes, application no.
If I were to paddle to a lake and decide to take a hike, could I return hours later to find my canoe borrowed, or worse?
Should I lock it to prevent someone from borrowing it, or should I risk it, just in case someone is offended with my locking it? How long might someone decide to borrow my canoe, and why should I be okay with that? How can you reasonably tell if a canoe has been recently cached vs recently stashed?

Well if its dented, rotted gunnels and seats, full of holes or banged in, chances are its abandoned, not stashed. A similar conclusion could be drawn if you come across the 10,000 or so aluminum prams with rotted transoms on remote lakes.

Last edited by Glen; 10-01-2013 at 08:54 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:52 PM   #103
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If the vegetation under the boat is dead and rotting away, the boat/canoe was not stashed/cached in the last couple of weeks.. (ants, rodents, and other critters are indicative of stashed boats also)
Most stashed craft will have no paddles and PFDs or the condition of said items will be questionable to unusable.

If you're concerned, leave a note with the canoe (something like left on such date to go for a hike, will retrieve it before..) that way no one can claim ignorance/mistake.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:47 PM   #104
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I wasn't aware of this thread when it started a few years back. I find it very interesting to say the least.

Here is my opinion, even though it matters nothing. Finding a canoe near a pond or lake is no different than finding something like a camper's area full of equipment near a trail. For me to take it right then and there would be wrong, as it might have been left there VERY recently by someone that took a day trip. If they come back right after I remove it, then that would be a very bad scenario.

Having said that, I would think that removing items would be permissible, so long as the following is followed: Take a trip specifically for the following purpose -- go to a lake or pond in question, and "map out" where the stashed canoes/boats are. Come back in another month or so. Are they still there? If they have moved, even a few feet, then I would have to assume the best, that perhaps the person is "making another day trip" (giving them the benefit of the doubt), and I would not touch that boat. If, however, the canoe (or boat) is in the same spot, then it can be assumed with good certainty that the item has been stashed, which is illegal, and can be considered abandoned, regardless of the level of deterioration. This would then allow what are clearly abandoned (junk) ones to be removed, but also for good ones to go to law-abiding owners.

Quite frankly, this would be a great way to get a few nice kayaks or canoes without paying for them.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:58 AM   #105
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I've never seen any stashed boats that could ever be considered nice. The many I've seen in the US and Canada I would call them either disposable or disposed boats.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:48 AM   #106
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I agree, most are in bad shape. I like TBPDPTI's plan. Haul 'em out, sell them for scrap, donate any money to the Adk organization of your choice (if it's an "outdoor" organization, restrict your donation for trail maintenance use only).
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:06 AM   #107
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I will be contacting some DEC folks I know to see if there is anything that WE, the owners of the property on which these boats/trash have been illegally dumped, can do about it.
If everyone who finds a boat or illegal campsite or "gear depot" were to carefully note the position (GPS coords would be best) and post it to a central web "catalog" with pictures it would be possible for volunteers, say as part of an annual event, to go in and haul the trash out and dispose of it properly.

This would require some organization, some sort of liaising with the proper authorities and of course- the actual work itself.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:13 AM   #108
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If everyone who finds a boat or illegal campsite or "gear depot" were to carefully note the position (GPS coords would be best) and post it to a central web "catalog" with pictures it would be possible for volunteers, say as part of an annual event, to go in and haul the trash out and dispose of it properly.

This would require some organization, some sort of liaising with the proper authorities and of course- the actual work itself.
I hereby propose the following name for the above activity - geotrashing.

I would like to believe that at least some of the hordes of geocachers out there might find that the new sport of geotrashing provides purpose in addition to recreation.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:47 AM   #109
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I hereby propose the following name for the above activity - geotrashing.

I would like to believe that at least some of the hordes of geocachers out there might find that the new sport of geotrashing provides purpose in addition to recreation.
I like it! Is there any way we could use the forum to create our database of geotrash?
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:22 PM   #110
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I was part of a medical emergency in a wilderness area very recently. I bushwacked close to a mile to a pond that I knew had a canoe stashed on it. I also knew there was no paddle with the canoe. . I used an unopened MRE lashed to a forked branch as a paddle and traveled to the far end of the pond to meet our fellow camper. We then canoed to the carry, took turns carrying our friend to where we left our gear hauler and made it back to our truck and out to emergency room.

Whole incident, from injury to emergency room took close to nine hours. We would have been screwed if that canoe wasn't there.

Just sayin', not all " eyesores " are useless.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:14 PM   #111
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Just sayin', not all " eyesores " are useless.
And the "devil's advocate" response: Most backcountry boats don't come with PFDs, and very few people carry them when using stashed boats in the backcountry. How long will it be before there is an accident resulting in significant injury (or even death) that could have been avoided if the boat wasn't there to begin with?

I'm not disagreeing with your point, just pointing out that the utility of stashed boats in the backcountry is still pretty subjective.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:56 AM   #112
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I was part of a medical emergency in a wilderness area very recently. I bushwacked close to a mile to a pond that I knew had a canoe stashed on it. I also knew there was no paddle with the canoe. . I used an unopened MRE lashed to a forked branch as a paddle and traveled to the far end of the pond to meet our fellow camper. We then canoed to the carry, took turns carrying our friend to where we left our gear hauler and made it back to our truck and out to emergency room.

Whole incident, from injury to emergency room took close to nine hours. We would have been screwed if that canoe wasn't there.

Just sayin', not all " eyesores " are useless.
WoW. This incident occurred in the ADk's?
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:24 AM   #113
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WoW. This incident occurred in the ADk's?
Maine.
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:32 AM   #114
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I volunteer to form a group of ATVers under the DEC auspices, to find, release and drag chained boats to the nearest road where a large flatbed truck will pick them up. They could then be auctioned off. Useable craft with paddles near water would be GPS marked but left alone. I might even provide the truck. In addition all junk and trash would be hauled out also. Comments?
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:32 AM   #115
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Get another hobbie
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:17 PM   #116
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Fifth Amendment

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Get another hobbie
Your comment makes me wonder whether you might be a canoe stasher! Just remember to unlock your chain if you have one and we'll leave your stashed craft alone.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:21 PM   #117
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Jiminy Johnson

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Get another hobbie
Any relation to Jeremiah Johnson? Isn't Jimmy still with us?
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:00 AM   #118
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I've come across plenty of old vehicles, camp remains, old soda bottles, car batteries, tires, a smoker, even a coke machine.....it'd take an concerned citizen like yourself years to haul all of it out, you should start there first then work on hiking boats out of ponds
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:15 PM   #119
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I've come across plenty of old vehicles, camp remains, old soda bottles, car batteries, tires, a smoker, even a coke machine.....it'd take an concerned citizen like yourself years to haul all of it out, you should start there first then work on hiking boats out of ponds
Must be your old campsites
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:53 PM   #120
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Ohh Gman I'm all about leave no trace in the ADKs all my beer cans and boats come out the same way they went in, no worries....I have been know to use other people's " stashed" boats, go over to hortons and calm your nerves
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