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View Poll Results: Should the Blue Line keep expanding?
Yes, we need to keep adding areas that fit within the scope of the current park 49 68.06%
No, it's already too big. 23 31.94%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-13-2014, 12:22 PM   #1
montcalm
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Should the Blue Line keep expanding?

We all know that NYS keeps acquiring new lands within the Blue Line, but should the Blue Line itself keep growing?

Historically, this is what I mean:



When I cross the boundaries I often look for geological or biological markers to denote when I've enter the Adirondack region. Some areas I feel coincide pretty well, others, I feel I'm well into the bedrock and flora that I feel define the Adirondacks.

With satellite images these days it gets even easier to see these things. I feel that much of the true border of the Adirondack region can been seen from this image:





The dark green areas just outside the blue line, especially in the north and western borders feel just as much like the Adirondacks to me as those just inside the blue line.

So should the state continue to add these areas when available and protect more acreage, or manage it as a park even if private? Or is the APA already biting off more than it can chew? Should we, as NYS residents just be concerned with acquisitions within the currently existing blue line?

Last edited by montcalm; 10-13-2014 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:15 PM   #2
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The no choice is over-burdened. Seems like the person who chooses no has to also agree with the pollster's political views regarding the APA.
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:19 PM   #3
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Feel free to remove the APA part. I have no particular say one way or another on them. I merely copied a statement I heard from speaking with a local.

A simple yes/no would be fine.

I don't know how to edit the poll...
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:20 PM   #4
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I think there's plenty of room for strategic acquisitions within the blue line and a few outside of it. The more that's acquired the more like a park it becomes. How is that a bad thing?
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:24 PM   #5
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I think vtflyfish brings up the point of why I shouldn't have added the APA portion. There are other reasons to vote no.

Some residents don't like the APA management, and wouldn't want to be part of the park for that reason. That could be contained under the no statement along with reasons such as acquiring more private land already within the current line or managing the current lands better.

Last edited by montcalm; 10-13-2014 at 07:32 PM.. Reason: misread post
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montcalm View Post
Some residents don't like the APA management, and wouldn't want to be part of the park for that reason.
That would be another poll altogether then.

I edited the no choice but IMO the "it's already too big " in the no choice still loads the question. It could be "no, it's just right", or simply, "no".
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:01 PM   #7
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Thank you. Perfect that way.
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:37 PM   #8
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Undeveloped land is always going to grow more scarce across the entire planet. If NY wants to buck that trend I am all for it. The biggest problem methinks is that some private land holdings might be managed better than NYS land. I would hate to see NY acquire some well managed land and then drop the ball. I know it is far fetched (tongue in cheek). I know that economics is usually the driving force behind any powerful entity but I can only hope that the powers that be may see the value in such a rare gem.
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:39 PM   #9
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The biggest problem methinks is that some private land holdings might be managed better than NYS land. I would hate to see NY acquire some well managed land and then drop the ball.
This is another reason against the increasing the boundary, but one must also consider that even land within the blue line need not be NYS land. It's only the APA jurisdiction that matters in that case.

One could also ponder the same type of thing regarding new public acquisitions within the current boundary. APA still has some say over private land, but the DEC has little to no influence.

One thing I didn't mention as a difference near the border is economic status. Again this is an area I have trouble clearly distinguishing. There maybe is an explanation for that but I think I read somewhere that some bordering townships follow APA regulations even if they don't have to. Does anyone know this for sure?
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:46 PM   #10
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I've always felt that the Tug Hill Plateau seemed to fit my image of the Adirondacks more than some parts of the Adirondacks itself - though it is obviously not at all within or under consideration to be a part of the Adirondacks...
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:35 AM   #11
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"It's already too big"??!!

That would fit developed land much better than undeveloped. under no circumstances would more land protected from development be a bad thing.

As for who does and doesn't like the APA, well funny thing about Americans. They don't like being told what to do even when it makes sense or protects them. Tough. We need agencies like the APA and others in this country. I admit that many of them could be managed better, but without them the dollar will rule almighty until the day there is nothing left to sell. Then when the resources are gone and the environment is ruined and our air and water is polluted, the people responsible will point there fingers at the poor, or the minorities and blame them, and most others will go along with them, unwilling to admit that they have been hoodwinked and cheated nior willing to accept responsibility for allowing it to happen.
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Old 10-14-2014, 06:37 AM   #12
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just curious...

What's the significance of the yellow line around Raquette Lake?

Based on the boundary of NYS being shown with the same yellow line, it would seem to imply that Raquette Lake has seceded from NYS.

Back on topic, the satellite image dramatically shows the differing level of development on either side of the blue line. Makes one wonder what it would have looked like had the blue line not existed.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by randomscooter View Post

Back on topic, the satellite image dramatically shows the differing level of development on either side of the blue line. Makes one wonder what it would have looked like had the blue line not existed.
Good point! The contrast speaks volumes.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomscooter View Post

Back on topic, the satellite image dramatically shows the differing level of development on either side of the blue line. Makes one wonder what it would have looked like had the blue line not existed.
Similarly, a satellite image taken at night would show interesting contrast regarding light.
As in:
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:58 AM   #15
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if we expand the blue line there is less land for the young to move to and find jobs....
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:13 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by randomscooter View Post
What's the significance of the yellow line around Raquette Lake?

Based on the boundary of NYS being shown with the same yellow line, it would seem to imply that Raquette Lake has seceded from NYS.

Back on topic, the satellite image dramatically shows the differing level of development on either side of the blue line. Makes one wonder what it would have looked like had the blue line not existed.
I borrowed the map because it already had the blue line overlay on the satellite image. I can't recall what the highlight of Raquette lake was for.

I would love to have a satellite image before the 1931 expansion. I've read that area was heavily cultivated at that time. I think we would have seen a stark difference from what the sat image shows today. Maybe if the park keeps growing west and annexes tug hill, the whole thing will be green all the way to Lake Ontario.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #17
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if we expand the blue line there is less land for the young to move to and find jobs....
Interesting take but do you see much socio-economic difference between those just inside the blue line and those just outside?

My crude observations seems to tell me the line, or hence APA/DEC/NYS isn't what is causing what I observe.

The only area I can think that maybe fits this is the Lake George/Queensbury area. You can see a difference in the development when you cross into the park, but there still a vast level of development on both sides. One is more big box American commercial, the other is more small, private business. I'm not seeing where that is a negative. I'm not sure there is a huge division of wealth or jobs there either.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #18
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That would be another poll altogether then.

I edited the no choice but IMO the "it's already too big " in the no choice still loads the question. It could be "no, it's just right", or simply, "no".
I have no objections to the wording of the poll initially or now. However, by your logic (I assume in attempt to obtain unbiased voter opinion), shouldn't the yes option simply just read yes?

One could argue that "we need to keep adding" could influence voters to think there is some sort of urgent emergency need to add land. If the goal is an unbiased survey, both options should be neutral.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:23 AM   #19
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I have no objections to the wording of the poll initially or now. However, by your logic (I assume in attempt to obtain unbiased voter opinion), shouldn't the yes option simply just read yes?

One could argue that "we need to keep adding" could influence voters to think there is some sort of urgent emergency need to add land. If the goal is an unbiased survey, both options should be neutral.
Totally agree but I'm not the originator of the poll.

Forum polls are nearly always flawed from a bias perspective anyway and are at best conversation starters.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:24 AM   #20
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One could argue that "we need to keep adding" could influence voters to think there is some sort of urgent emergency need to add land. If the goal is an unbiased survey, both options should be neutral.
Probably a simple yes should suffice. I thought it necessary to add the stipulation that it fits within the current part. For example, I don't think annexing Watertown or the outlying flat areas near the St. Lawrence would fit within the Adirondacks. The geology and biology are so much different.

Of course I saw it fit to throw in the APA portion in the no response. Like it or not, public or private, the APA has some control over what is done. That was at least my initial reasoning.
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