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  • CO2 from our breath is carbon neutral, meaning that it releases carbon that was already in the atmosphere only a short time ago.
    The carbon we exhale comes from our food. So that carbon was part of a plant not that long ago (a few years, at the most). And the plant got that carbon from the atmosphere. So there's no net change in CO2 from that.
    I'm not sure where the carbon dioxide in soda comes from. Probably from the atmosphere, so it would be carbon neutral as well.
    The same applies to burning wood or other biomass. It's carbon neutral. (Of course it releases smoke and particulates that are harmful in other ways)

    CO2 from fossil fuels has been stored underground for many millions of years, and it took a long time to form in the fist place. So when we burn coal or oil, we're releasing, in a few years, amounts of carbon that took millions of years to remove from the atmosphere.
    He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Professor Hobbit View Post
      CO2 from our breath is carbon neutral, meaning that it releases carbon that was already in the atmosphere only a short time ago.
      The carbon we exhale comes from our food. So that carbon was part of a plant not that long ago (a few years, at the most). And the plant got that carbon from the atmosphere. So there's no net change in CO2 from that.
      I'm not sure where the carbon dioxide in soda comes from. Probably from the atmosphere, so it would be carbon neutral as well.
      The same applies to burning wood or other biomass. It's carbon neutral. (Of course it releases smoke and particulates that are harmful in other ways)

      CO2 from fossil fuels has been stored underground for many millions of years, and it took a long time to form in the fist place. So when we burn coal or oil, we're releasing, in a few years, amounts of carbon that took millions of years to remove from the atmosphere.
      Thanks for that refresher. Critical to the problem, yet very easy to comprehend. I see a clear parallel between that and our utilization of water from aquifers, in only a few dozen years, that took thousands of years to originally fill. We simply can't expect to continue down these roads without consequences.
      Scooting here and there
      Through the woods and up the peaks
      Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


      "Pushing the limits of easy."™

      Comment


      • Originally posted by randomscooter View Post
        Thanks for that refresher. Critical to the problem, yet very easy to comprehend. I see a clear parallel between that and our utilization of water from aquifers, in only a few dozen years, that took thousands of years to originally fill. We simply can't expect to continue down these roads without consequences.
        As has been said a few times alread. Read "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. Find out why many civilizations "collapsed". Then look at what we are doing today and you'll see collapse on a global scale. And I don't think he address global warming at all, but rather, consuming resources faster than we can replenish them.
        "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

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        • The international politics of climate change

          What's emerging is that the scientists are in universal agreement as to the causes and potential consequences of global warming. What's up for debate is who gets to pay for those consequences (the do-nothing case) or their prevention (the active CO2 reduction case).

          BERLIN (AP) — The U.N.'s expert panel on climate change on Sunday highlighted the disconnect between international goals to fight global warming and what is being done to attain them.
          Oscar Wilde:Work is the curse of the drinking class

          Comment


          • Originally posted by vtflyfish View Post
            What's emerging is that the scientists are in universal agreement as to the causes and potential consequences of global warming. What's up for debate is who gets to pay for those consequences (the do-nothing case) or their prevention (the active CO2 reduction case).

            http://news.yahoo.com/climate-panel-...--finance.html
            "the biggest reason for the rising emissions is the higher energy needs resulting from population growth and expanding economies in the developing world, mainly in China and other large countries"

            Finally! An admission as to who really is responsible for rising CO2 levels. 70% of world emissions today are now from "developing" countries. Good luck with trying to get them to slow down. Fortunately the threat is overblown because there will never be a world agreement.

            Comment


            • But we (people in developed countries) use much more, per person. Remember, China has about 5 times our population, but uses about the same amount of energy and produces about the same amount of CO2.
              And they're producing much of that CO2 because of industrial production for consumption in the developed world. So that's sort of our pollution too.

              American per-capita CO2 production is about 18 metric tons per year (and slowly falling)
              Chinese per-capita CO2 production is about 6 metric tons per year (and rising)
              He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.

              Comment


              • Here is a funny clip building upon the latest Climate Change scare. Only thing it needs is a better title. I'd change it to "Two days before the day after tomorrow (OMG - that's TODAY!)"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cityboy View Post
                  "the biggest reason for the rising emissions is the higher energy needs resulting from population growth and expanding economies in the developing world, mainly in China and other large countries"

                  Finally! An admission as to who really is responsible for rising CO2 levels. 70% of world emissions today are now from "developing" countries. Good luck with trying to get them to slow down. Fortunately the threat is overblown because there will never be a world agreement.
                  BULLS*IT. The problem we have today has been caused by US and the other countries are now being made to appear the villians.. It's the old politics of blame. If you don't want to step up and accept responsibility for your acts then point the finger at someone else.

                  We didn't do, aren't doing and have no intention of doing anything about it, just like China and all the other emerging countries. This problem was rearing it's ugly head back when china was nothing but rice patties and most other of the present day "emerging" countries were part of some other nations imperial empire.
                  Last edited by Neil; 04-15-2014, 04:32 PM.
                  "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by redhawk View Post
                    BULLS*IT. The problem we have today has been caused by US and the other countries are now being made to appear the villians.. It's the old politics of blame. If you don't want to step up and accept responsibility for your acts then point the finger at someone else.

                    We didn't do, aren't doing and have no intention of doing anything about it, just like China and all the other emerging countries. This problem was rearing it's ugly head back when china was nothing but rice patties and most other of the present day "emerging" countries were part of some other nations imperial empire.

                    Grow up and step up ands stop trying to blame others for the problem we've caused. We're still burning coal for Gods sake. And we will as long as it's cheap. Acid rain in the Adirondacks isn't caused by China!
                    Oscar Wilde:Work is the curse of the drinking class

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by redhawk View Post
                      BULLS*IT. The problem we have today has been caused by US and the other countries are now being made to appear the villians.. It's the old politics of blame. If you don't want to step up and accept responsibility for your acts then point the finger at someone else.

                      We didn't do, aren't doing and have no intention of doing anything about it, just like China and all the other emerging countries. This problem was rearing it's ugly head back when china was nothing but rice patties and most other of the present day "emerging" countries were part of some other nations imperial empire.

                      Grow up and step up ands stop trying to blame others for the problem we've caused. We're still burning coal for Gods sake. And we will as long as it's cheap. Acid rain in the Adirondacks isn't caused by China!
                      I feel your pain Hawk. Perhaps Glen was right...
                      Originally posted by Glen View Post
                      Scoot-

                      You're banging your head against a brick wall. He's just going to keep posting links thinking he's changing opinions.
                      Some people just aren't interested in serious discussion. Just 14 step programs and other silliness.
                      Scooting here and there
                      Through the woods and up the peaks
                      Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


                      "Pushing the limits of easy."™

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by redhawk View Post
                        BULLS*IT. The problem we have today has been caused by US and the other countries are now being made to appear the villians.. It's the old politics of blame. If you don't want to step up and accept responsibility for your acts then point the finger at someone else.
                        That's the problem with zealots. They accept the message until it goes against their beliefs. The original quote was from the IPCC summary.

                        Let me repeat it for you.

                        "the biggest reason for the rising emissions is the higher energy needs resulting from population growth and expanding economies in the developing world, mainly in China and other large countries"

                        What they say is perfectly logical and true. Google world population and tell me what countries have exploded in population since 1950.

                        Developing countries are also most likely to be using coal to heat too. They don't have the luxury or money to go green.

                        I realize it may be an "inconvenient truth" for you to accept but you'll just have to live with it.
                        Last edited by cityboy; 04-13-2014, 03:39 PM. Reason: Added coal reference

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cityboy View Post
                          That's the problem with zealots. They accept the message until it goes against their beliefs. The original quote was from the IPCC summary.

                          Let me repeat it for you.

                          "the biggest reason for the rising emissions is the higher energy needs resulting from population growth and expanding economies in the developing world, mainly in China and other large countries"

                          What they say is perfectly logical and true. Google world population and tell me what countries have exploded in population since 1950.

                          Developing countries are also most likely to be using coal to heat too. They don't have the luxury or money to go green.

                          I realize it may be an "inconvenient truth" for you to accept but you'll just have to live with it.
                          You, sir, are guilty of cherry picking quotes. The article also states (correctly) that the good ole US of A has released the most CO2 into the atmosphere of any country. China will take over that dubious distinction in the next decade.

                          We need to own our substantial contribution to the problem. We also ought to lead by example, in my opinion.
                          Oscar Wilde:Work is the curse of the drinking class

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by vtflyfish View Post
                            You, sir, are guilty of cherry picking quotes. The article also states (correctly) that the good ole US of A has released the most CO2 into the atmosphere of any country. China will take over that dubious distinction in the next decade.
                            My quote wasn't taken out of context. Here was the problem stated right up front in the article.

                            "On average global emissions rose by 2.2 percent — or 1 gigaton — a year between 2000 and 2010, outpacing growth in previous decades to reach "unprecedented levels" despite some efforts to contain them, the IPCC said."

                            "Leaked drafts of that document showed the biggest reason for the rising emissions is the higher energy needs resulting from population growth and expanding economies in the developing world, mainly in China and other large countries. However, diagrams that illustrated that were DELETED by governments in the final version that was adopted at a weeklong IPCC session in Berlin."

                            By the second quote it appears that developing countries don't want to own up to their responsibility and are trying to suppress the message.

                            The US and other developed countries have certainly done their fair share in shrinking their CO2 output and yet world output has increased at the highest rate in history. That's because developing countries refuse to participate.

                            Comment


                            • Pollution in developing countries does not justify our own pollution. Especially when they are producing that pollution for our benefit.
                              Yes, the developing world pollutes.
                              But we pollute more, much more per-capita than any developing nation. That is a fact.
                              What is your response to that?

                              I'm guessing your response will be one of the following:
                              Ignore my post and change the subject, ("yeah, but what about sunspots!?!...also Al Gore is a hypocrite!!!!")
                              declare victory. ("HA!, so you admit the developing world pollutes! You lose!")
                              claim that we all misunderstood your previous argument. ("Hey, I never tried to deflect to blame to the developing world! You're putting words in my mouth")
                              Last edited by Hobbitling; 04-13-2014, 06:56 PM.
                              He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.

                              Comment


                              • Brick wall alert

                                You were warned about this.
                                “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
                                ― Cormac McCarthy

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