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  • The authorities had a hard time finding Copernicus.
    I wonder what he'd say if he saw the Earth today.







    .

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    • Originally posted by geogymn View Post
      Hawk, I can agree generally to your assessment but feel a need to add some optimism. Some places (certain streams in particular) are cleaner now than when I was young and more places are being reclaimed nicely every year. I know that gross degradation is pretty much inevitable but methinks that there is a greater number of conservation conscious youth than in yesteryear. What do you think?
      I was referring more to cases like the destrucytion of Pomderosa and Lodgepole Pine in Montana and Wyoming where I hike often. It's been called the largest insect blight in North America. It has caused the destruction of millions of acres in Wyoming and Montana. It's caused by the mountain pine beetle and unusual hot, dry summers and mild winters throughout the region during the last few years, along with forests filled with mature lodgepole pine, have led to an unprecedented epidemic.

      Where have all the birch trees gone? In Connecticut they hardly exist any more and the rise in temperature is atttributed to their demise.

      What about the Emerald Ash Borer? Warmer temps have allowed them to infest the Adirondacks.

      It's events like that and my observations of the forests past and present that convince me that we have a serious problem.

      To deny it, or to argue that we might be in trouble in 2300 instead of 2100 as an excuse to do little or nothing boggles my mind. I can only believe that people are much less observant, their memories suck or more than likely they are unable to think for themselves.
      "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

      Comment


      • Originally posted by redhawk View Post
        I was referring more to cases like the destrucytion of Pomderosa and Lodgepole Pine in Montana and Wyoming where I hike often. It's been called the largest insect blight in North America. It has caused the destruction of millions of acres in Wyoming and Montana. It's caused by the mountain pine beetle and unusual hot, dry summers and mild winters throughout the region during the last few years, along with forests filled with mature lodgepole pine, have led to an unprecedented epidemic.

        Where have all the birch trees gone? In Connecticut they hardly exist any more and the rise in temperature is atttributed to their demise.

        What about the Emerald Ash Borer? Warmer temps have allowed them to infest the Adirondacks.

        It's events like that and my observations of the forests past and present that convince me that we have a serious problem.

        To deny it, or to argue that we might be in trouble in 2300 instead of 2100 as an excuse to do little or nothing boggles my mind. I can only believe that people are much less observant, their memories suck or more than likely they are unable to think for themselves.
        Ok, I can't deny that the trees are sick and it appears to be terminal. I've see the beetle kill in Colorado and it is overwhelming in scale. I am a feared that a forest fire will be uncontainable and catastrophic.
        Many species are hurting as some you mentioned. I just read they are cutting down Oak trees in Glenville, NY to try to contain the Oak Wilt. I've been planting Oaks as of late trying to play the global warming card.
        What can you plant anymore that has a chance of out living you?
        I often fantasize about visiting the woods of my youth to see if the sickness was there and I just learned how to recognize it. The Beech have been going for a long time. It is hard to find a healthy Beech stand anymore. Was the beloved Beech groves of my youth showing signs of disease but I was too naïve to recognize it?
        I guess that might be the answer, the problem needs to be recognized.
        "A culture is no better than its woods." W.H. Auden

        Comment


        • We have certainly lost some majestic trees since the colonization of the country. The American Elm, American Chestnut are two of my favorites. There are still some around that have survived the dutch elm disease and chestnut blight.

          About 20 years ago while hiking I noticed the distinctive shape of an elm in the distance. I headed off in search of it. It was quite large and I contacted NYS and a NYS Forester came to check it out. An analysis (I don't recall if it was dna) of the leaves, seeds, etc... confirmed it was an American Elm and not a hybrid. It wasn't the largest remaining specimen in NYS, but it was "in the top 10" according to the Forester who later contacted me with the results.

          A family friend who has long since passed away had tried to replant American Chestnut throughout the Rochester area back in the 1950's-1970's. We used to hike with him and he would point to places where he planted seedlings, many of these places are in our County Parks. We had one in my yard while growing up. It got to be about 6 inches in diameter by the time I moved away. The new owners eventually cut it down. I do not know if had died. About 3 years ago i found a remnant of one of Larry's Chestnut trees. The original had died, as the stump was still present but new growth had reappeared. 2 inch diameter saplings were growing out of the stump mass. I have heard this is typical for a chestnut afflicted with the blight. Sad.

          /TreeSagaThreadjack
          "There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service

          My trail journal: DuctTape's Journal

          Comment


          • There are several organizations working to develop a blight resistant strain of the American Chestnut. Some good info here:

            The ESF American Chestnut Project has developed a blight-tolerant American chestnut tree, and is working to restore this iconic and valuable cultural symbol to the forest ecosystems of the eastern United States.


            I don't think it's a stretch to say that the disappearance of these climax trees radically altered not only the canopy but the distribution of animals dependent on the food source. This is a long term project but recent developments show some promise.
            “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
            ― Cormac McCarthy

            Comment


            • Here's an article from the BBC about the upcoming climate report update.

              Negotiators work through the night in an effort to complete their review of a key report on the impacts of climate change.
              Oscar Wilde:Work is the curse of the drinking class

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Glen View Post
                There are several organizations working to develop a blight resistant strain of the American Chestnut. Some good info here:

                The ESF American Chestnut Project has developed a blight-tolerant American chestnut tree, and is working to restore this iconic and valuable cultural symbol to the forest ecosystems of the eastern United States.


                I don't think it's a stretch to say that the disappearance of these climax trees radically altered not only the canopy but the distribution of animals dependent on the food source. This is a long term project but recent developments show some promise.
                Now that's just crazy talk Glen. Next you'll be saying that it may be possible to restore the brook trout fishery in the Adirondacks.
                Scooting here and there
                Through the woods and up the peaks
                Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


                "Pushing the limits of easy."™

                Comment


                • Originally posted by vtflyfish View Post
                  Here's an article from the BBC about the upcoming climate report update.

                  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26802192
                  Given a choice of plus 2C versus minus 2C most people would chose the former.

                  Look how much human population has increased from just 1950. We are a warm weather species. Its why we came from Africa instead of Antarctica.


                  Comment


                  • Gee, the graph sure looks like a sustainable trend to me.
                    Attached Files
                    Oscar Wilde:Work is the curse of the drinking class

                    Comment


                    • Your tax dollars at work:

                      The National Science Foundation has spent nearly $700,000 on a climate change-themed musical, leaving some in Congress questioning if the organization's grant funds could be put to better use.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TCD View Post
                        Hell of a lot better than the "bridge to nowhere". At least people get entertained and educated. $700,000? That's a drop in the bucket compared to the pork that's around.

                        And out of curiosity, How does it disprove climate change?
                        "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                        Comment


                        • Surprisingly enough, I personally didn't find any of the grants mentioned in the article to be objectionable.
                          Scooting here and there
                          Through the woods and up the peaks
                          Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


                          "Pushing the limits of easy."™

                          Comment


                          • This is plagiarized from a poster on the NY Times comments section. It seems to break the issue down better than arguing over graphs:

                            "Global warming is easy to understand as a result of some simple and basic physics. The more energy retained by a system, the warmer it's going to be. Since we can measure the present energy imbalance going on at the top of the atmosphere, and have been able to do so consistently since 1979, it should be obvious that the overall climate system will warm because of the added energy since we've measured a surplus every year. All the rest is just details, such as where and how fast the average surface temperature goes up, how much heat goes into the oceans, or to melt ice, or to make plants grow, etc. Those are the detailed specifics that scientists from many disciplines are trying to figure out. But they all agree that the system is warming and that we're the cause because of our changing of greenhouse gas concentrations.

                            We've been affecting greenhouse gas concentrations, in one way or another, since the dawn of civilization and agriculture thousands of years ago. .... It's actually only over the last 200 years that we've accelerated the changes enough and really made them noticeable. Of course we know that the changes continue to accelerate as we pursue business as usual."
                            “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
                            ― Cormac McCarthy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Glen View Post
                              All the rest is just details, such as where and how fast the average surface temperature goes up, how much heat goes into the oceans, or to melt ice, or to make plants grow, etc.
                              Those are pretty big details. I don't know of anyone who disputes that warming is not occurring. People argue about the "why" and "how fast".

                              I noticed that for the most part the IPCC news was greeted by a collective yawn. I bet you guys wish you could get the coverage that the missing Malaysian plane is getting.

                              I find it ironic that Alarmists are being treated by the general public in the same way that they have treated skeptics (by being ignored).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by cityboy View Post
                                Those are pretty big details. I don't know of anyone who disputes that warming is not occurring. People argue about the "why" and "how fast".

                                I noticed that for the most part the IPCC news was greeted by a collective yawn. I bet you guys wish you could get the coverage that the missing Malaysian plane is getting.

                                I find it ironic that Alarmists are being treated by the general public in the same way that they have treated skeptics (by being ignored).

                                Who are "you guys". Do you need to make enemies out of people you disagree with? The "why" was explained in that post. I don't think the "how fast" is all that important. As far as the general public goes, given that a large percentage of our population doesn't believe in evolution, I don't let their opinion affect mine. You tailor facts to conform with your ideology, whatever that is.
                                “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
                                ― Cormac McCarthy

                                Comment

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