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Old 05-23-2018, 08:18 PM   #1
Ryan Ball
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Accidental stocking and holding those responsible.

So what where to happen to me or anyone if we stocked fish in a trout pond that where never to be in the pond in the first place......We would be most likely fined, arrested and humiliated in forums and social media right.....So what happened to the fools who accidentally stocked browns in a Windfall strain brookie pond that was used for brood stock males? Just heard of browns being caught in another pond that was always brookies and rainbows. Looking into the DEC actual stockings for last year the first pond in question was in fact accidental as it was not listed but the second pond come to find out was listed as being stocked with browns...why? One of the best brookie and rainbow spots around why would anyone stock browns on top of it. Do you think the ones responsible where prosecuted the same manner anyone else would? Just angers me some of the best brookie ponds now have browns.....ok rant over feel free to comment.

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Old 05-24-2018, 06:34 AM   #2
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Rainbows are non-native, too.
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:04 AM   #3
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Why would DEC not have a back up electric system at the Lake Clear hatchery for power outages. They just lost over 75% of their salmon
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:10 AM   #4
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They do but it "broke down"
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:58 AM   #5
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Why would DEC not have a back up electric system at the Lake Clear hatchery for power outages. They just lost over 75% of their salmon
Read somewhere that it was a transfer switch 'malfunction', the backup generator worked. Probably no 'boots on the ground' were present to make sure it was keeping the fry alive (and no automated alert system).

Ryan, have you checked with DEC fisheries about the stocking mishap - they should at least know about it.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:15 PM   #6
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why doesn't the DEC stop stocking brown/rainbow trout in any stream that is a traditional brook trout stream. Which would be all of them. Concentrate on stream quality and let mother nature bring things back into balance. I know why $.

Here's another one to ponder. I know West Canada Creek below the dam is a pretty decent trout fishery. I imagine it wouldn't be so if it wasn't stocked so heavily. I wonder how good of a smallmouth fishery it might become if they quit stocking it with trout? Smallmouths are native to that watershed.
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:01 PM   #7
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The DEC knows about it, they put up a sign i believe waiving them as part of your limit. Bosco there are only two true native fish in the state as they are the only two species to survive the last ice age. Brookies and whitefish. There is data showing perhaps perch survived as well. Remember reading an article showing perch dna in sediment samples that date back to before the ice age. Have not heard much on it other than that one study.
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:52 PM   #8
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The DEC knows about it, they put up a sign i believe waiving them as part of your limit. Bosco there are only two true native fish in the state as they are the only two species to survive the last ice age. Brookies and whitefish. There is data showing perhaps perch survived as well. Remember reading an article showing perch dna in sediment samples that date back to before the ice age. Have not heard much on it other than that one study.
Landlocked salmon, too.
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:34 AM   #9
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I queried the DEC last year about why they stocked browns in some of the Brook Trout ponds. Their response indicated that they did this in ponds where their was a minnow or baitfish population that needed to be controlled better. I'll let you decide on the merit of that policy. This would be different than an "accidental" stocking though.

On a different note, Lake Trout weren't native?
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:51 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=bosco;267740]why doesn't the DEC stop stocking brown/rainbow trout in any stream that is a traditional brook trout stream. Which would be all of them. Concentrate on stream quality and let mother nature bring things back into balance. I know why $



I agree, but to improve stream/water quality, you have to eliminate beaver.
The reason brook trout flourished in the ADks and Tug Hill is because in the early 1900ís there were only a couple of remaining beaver colonies left in all of NY.
On Tug Hill The beaver population exploded in the 1960ís and the native brook trout population has been degraded ever since.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:25 AM   #11
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On a different note, Lake Trout weren't native?
I was wondering the same thing.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:30 AM   #12
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On a different note, Lake Trout weren't native?
I've been told LT and native.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:33 AM   #13
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I agree, but to improve stream/water quality, you have to eliminate beaver.
The reason brook trout flourished in the ADks and Tug Hill is because in the early 1900ís there were only a couple of remaining beaver colonies left in all of NY.
On Tug Hill The beaver population exploded in the 1960ís and the native brook trout population has been degraded ever since.
Don't blame the beavers, at least not in whole. I've heard the same argument that fishing is/has been in decline about most streams. The chief cause is overfishing or pollution. We just have a hard time accepting that and like to blame someone/something else.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:17 PM   #14
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Don't blame the beavers, at least not in whole. I've heard the same argument that fishing is/has been in decline about most streams. The chief cause is overfishing or pollution. We just have a hard time accepting that and like to blame someone/something else.
Dundee,
Anytime you want to come to Tug Hill I’ll give you a tour of tributaries of the Salmon River and the East Branch of Fish Creek. Theses tribs have had their shade integrity destroyed by beaver, and with that comes warm water, siltation ,acidity and stagnation, all the way to their headwaters. These streams used to be teeming with native brook trout, not anymore.

Also, one could drink from these streams before the advent of over population of beavers. They have almost single handedly destroyed the brook trout on Tug Hill.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:31 PM   #15
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Speaking of non native species. Caught this last night. A friend said it was a Rudd. After looking it up I think he is right what do you guys think?
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File Type: jpeg 3DE8410E-A58C-4ACC-A6B1-F8C5D8AFC35A.jpeg (55.8 KB, 155 views)
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Old 05-25-2018, 02:51 PM   #16
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Dundee,
Anytime you want to come to Tug Hill Iíll give you a tour of tributaries of the Salmon River and the East Branch of Fish Creek. Theses tribs have had their shade integrity destroyed by beaver, and with that comes warm water, siltation ,acidity and stagnation, all the way to their headwaters. These streams used to be teeming with native brook trout, not anymore.

Also, one could drink from these streams before the advent of over population of beavers. They have almost single handedly destroyed the brook trout on Tug Hill.
I have 30+ years of experience with the tributaries to the North Branch of the Salmon, and many of them have been loaded with brook trout, albeit usually small due to the amount of scour experienced in spring runoff, and the low nutrient load. They are not full of fish now, but I blame that on the drought two seasons ago. While old beaver ponds are generally not good habitat for BT, new ones can produce some trophy fish, both on the hill and in the 'dacks, and I'm always watching for new(er) ones. Many of the streams on the hill have or had poor trout populations because until recent history they were used for log roads every winter, and I heard that from a family that has over five generations on the Central Hill.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:07 PM   #17
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There is no north branch of Salmon River. There are the east and west fork of Salmon River.

You are correct that streams were used as logging roads, but that practice was banned over 50 years ago, and once that practice was banned the streams still held large populations of BT. I have 60 years of experience fishing on Tug Hill. And the brook trout fishery is only a token of it once was. You are also correct that beaver ponds can create habitat for BT, but that habitat is short lived.

The process goes like this, a dam is built flooding and killing the timber that shades the stream, then the beaver move upstream and build another, as the colony expands, they keep moving up and downstream building dams until they have destroyed the shade integrity for most of the stream. Then by flooding naturally acidic forest soil more acid is leeched into the pond, and along with the water warming because of no longer being shaded, the pond sours. Then even if the beaver die off or are trapped out, most of these small streams do not have a large enough flow even during spring melt, to breach the dams, resulting in years of stagnation.

Talk with City of Rome. Officials that have monitored the east branch of Fish Creeks water quality for decades, (Rome’s water supply), they will echo my statements.

My invitation is open to anyone who cares to tour the 30,300 acre Corrigan Tract that I help manage, to see the damage first hand.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:22 PM   #18
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https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_mar...nbrsalrpfr.pdf
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:45 PM   #19
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Thank you, NHtroutster, but what does DEC know?
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:48 PM   #20
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Both the beaver and the Brook Trout were coexisting on the Hill and in the 'Dacks long before the first Europeans got here. And there is a trapping season for beaver, so they should be very susceptible to management.
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