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Cost per sq ft to build Adirondack Camp

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  • #16
    I think the writing is on the wall... and I think I got what I wanted to get from this thread.

    From a cost perspective, it doesn't make sense to build new. From the best I can tell, we'd be dropping 200-250K to get what we want, and when we're done we'd probably not be able to sell for anywhere near that based on what I see on the market now.

    I think the only impetus for building new would be if you already had or inherited some land. Or if you knew exactly what you wanted, and don't want to compromise in other ways and don't plan on selling for many, many years.

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    • #17
      Buying an existing camp and upgrading over the course of time is probably the cheapest way to go. You can usually find decent tradesman that will do remodel work etc,.. for much cheaper than the up front costs of building from new.
      When I worked my last job I drove through the Adirondacks quite a bit on my route.I used to see small cabins for sale and land parcels for sale. It would get me all excited until I got home and got the sticker shock looking the real estate pricing up. Suppose day hikes and weekend camping trips will have to suffice for me.
      Hunt when you can, Fish when you can't.

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      • #18
        Another alternative would be to build a small cabin at one of the hunting/fishing/outdoor clubs throughout the park. Blue Mountain, Robinwood (Sabattis), Newcomb, Kempshall Mountain, Minerva are a few clubs that allow you to build a cabin on a leased lot.

        Downsides are you have to abide by the rules of the club, usually off grid (need generator) and you may not have year round access unless you have a snow machine. I'm not sure about water...if they allow a well to be drilled.
        Also, if the club loses it's lease you may have to leave your cabin behind unless you can move it or dismantle it. I know that Robinwood recently purchased quite a few acres so that would not occur there.

        Most of these clubs have websites.........worth a look.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by yellowcanoe View Post
          http://www.home-cost.com/constructio...r-sf.html#form



          One last thing. Make sure your land is not bug infested. We have had a five acre lot for sale for six years near me. Its mosquito and blackfly heaven.
          How much is that bug haven? Is it swamp, or have a pond for breeding?

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          • #20
            I am a building & union electrical contractor...we do more building than electrical. A small cabin... size in the picture would probably cost around 20K + in material. You can just about double that with labor and keep in mind there is no elect, plum etc.. in that number. If your building on one of those camp properties I would suggest 8' sections of framing bolted together so it can be removed and relocated. I would do the roof in Metal so it too could be removed. Truss's would also be an advantage to relocate. I am in the process of looking into those camps that allow building on the property. Lived with gas lights/refrig in our camp in Cooks Falls NY...loved it.

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            • #21
              You have to be worried a lot more about selling the property down the road.

              We are from Toronto and seriously considered buying property in Lake Placid 10 years ago (I got a small inheritance from my Uncle).

              When you are a foreign resident, you have to pay 7% (I believe... correct me if I`ve forgotten) on the selling price directly to U.S. government. ``Foreign resident tax`. There can also be local `municipal`or `school`taxes for non-residents.

              We thought about it again when all the real estate prices crashed a few years back in the U.S.A. (but not here in Toronto). Thought it would be great to snatch up a cheap USA property... but look what happened to all the poor Canadians who invested in Florida and Las Vegas. Be careful!!! Lending rules are different down south and prices very volatile.

              Maybe you believe you will never sell, but think of the headache for your children on the inheritance (we thought about that and decided to keep our money up north).

              Food for thought!

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              • #22
                I have done the same exercise as you and in the end found the US real estate market a very scary place. It did answer many questions I had why we (Americans and Canadians) think differently about investing money. I don't know what it is in the US but here a rough guideline is $200/sq. foot for a "turn key" rural home. That is well, septic, permits etc.. Generally it is 50/50material and labour.
                Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gman View Post
                  I have done the same exercise as you and in the end found the US real estate market a very scary place. It did answer many questions I had why we (Americans and Canadians) think differently about investing money. I don't know what it is in the US but here a rough guideline is $200/sq. foot for a "turn key" rural home. That is well, septic, permits etc.. Generally it is 50/50material and labour.
                  Have a 2300 square foot home and 1400 square foot garage. A very similar house across the road from the lake ( with deeded access) and 2 acres is on the market for $250,000. Not $460k ( the garage is separate and not heated so not included)

                  A few new homes went in up the road ( not lake access). Smalller 1400 square foot homes. They sold for $145,000.

                  I can't afford Canada.. Nor the Adirondacks either which is much more expensive than here.

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                  • #24
                    You can definitely buy existing cheaper than building new. Depending on what your home is I am sure it is on par price wise with a similar home in New Brunswick or rural Quebec. Anyone retiring from here in Ontario to the rural Maritimes knew you could lose your shirt on a new build down east. Who was going to buy it? In the Northern ADK's from Malone to Watertown things are cheaper not so with the LP area. Location, location, location.
                    Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gman View Post
                      You can definitely buy existing cheaper than building new. Depending on what your home is I am sure it is on par price wise with a similar home in New Brunswick or rural Quebec. Anyone retiring from here in Ontario to the rural Maritimes knew you could lose your shirt on a new build down east. Who was going to buy it? In the Northern ADK's from Malone to Watertown things are cheaper not so with the LP area. Location, location, location.
                      Extensive study on my part has shown that the 'ideal' location for someone coming from the west, and not from the north is speculator to wells area.

                      This is by considering drive vs. accessibility to the rest of the park.

                      I think the OP is looking the right area. Cost is reasonable if no water access is needed (with hundreds of public lakes and ponds, one has to ask why?).

                      Used will always be cheaper than new though, well for comparable properties and structures, that should be common knowledge.

                      I've seen reasonably sized year round camps with water, sewer, electric and heat in that area for as little as $50k, provided you don't want a large chunk of land. More rustic camps with more land can be found in that price range as well. Depends on what your specific needs are.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gman View Post
                        As a Canadian - you, and myself a Canadian with lending experience I doubt you will have much luck obtaining financing on a new build.

                        The Canadian banks collateral is somewhere in the backwoods in Northern NY. Its cross border assessments, legal encumbrances etc.

                        I doubt a US bank would loan money to Canadian who's main assets (income and existing property) are out of reach without expensive litigation. It's a legal hassle.

                        Use the existing collateral in your Canadian home. If you don't have the collateral you shouldn't be dreaming about building a cabin in the ADKs. Sorry to be so negative but its true.
                        good advice and true with most 2nd homes regardless
                        A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they never shall sit in

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by montcalm View Post
                          Extensive study on my part has shown that the 'ideal' location for someone coming from the west, and not from the north is speculator to wells area.

                          This is by considering drive vs. accessibility to the rest of the park.

                          I think the OP is looking the right area. Cost is reasonable if no water access is needed (with hundreds of public lakes and ponds, one has to ask why?).

                          Used will always be cheaper than new though, well for comparable properties and structures, that should be common knowledge.

                          I've seen reasonably sized year round camps with water, sewer, electric and heat in that area for as little as $50k, provided you don't want a large chunk of land. More rustic camps with more land can be found in that price range as well. Depends on what your specific needs are.
                          Hate to differ but with Tug Hill and Lake Ontario in the way it is hard to come to the Adirondacks from the west. Rt. 12 skirts the western edge but only secondary roads go east into the Park and don't go far or else you end up on Rt.3 or 28. From the west you enter the Park from the northwest (Waterown, Canada) on Rt.3 or the southwest (Utica) and Rt.28. For someone coming from Canada to choose the Wells/Speculator area is kinda dumb. It is about as far from Canada time wise as anywhere in the Park unless you live in southwestern Ontario and cross at Buffalo and take 1-90 east. But that is a long way to go.
                          Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

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                          • #28
                            I'm not a Canadian but I suppose it depends on where you are in Canada.

                            Coming from the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area, the area I spoke of is a clear winner. I-90 to 365 to Rte 8. Easy peasy. Tug hill and Lake Ontario aren't even on the radar.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by montcalm View Post
                              I'm not a Canadian but I suppose it depends on where you are in Canada.

                              Coming from the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area, the area I spoke of is a clear winner. I-90 to 365 to Rte 8. Easy peasy. Tug hill and Lake Ontario aren't even on the radar.
                              Well I did say with the exception of southwestern Ontario didn't I? We don't know where the OP is from but I doubt many weeked visitors from Ontario come from that direction unless you were right at the border. By the time you negotiate weekend traffic in that part of the Province, get across any of those crossings on a weekend and then drive 3 or 4 hours on I-90 the shine would go off that pretty quick. Not much of a tradition of visiting the ADK's in that part of the Province. Contrast that to Eastern Ontario and Montreal where there is. It is close enough and the crossings are more, smaller and less hassles that many can and will make day trips just to fish, hike, ski, climb etc..
                              Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

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                              • #30
                                Maybe the OP will chime back but I seem to remember reading a post where he mentioned being from the Niagara area.

                                As for my extensive study - it only applies to that area because that's where I am coming from.

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