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Old 07-16-2009, 04:05 PM   #1
TBPDPTI
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Another idoitic proposal.

So here's a good one that's been in the news a few times: There's a new push for a "Rooftop Highway", which would be a 4-lane road connecting, at the minimum, Watertown with Champlain, and possibly stretching as far as Veremont, NH, or even Maine. This would most likely cut right through the ADK's, requiring the construction of another useless road. This is simply preposterous, IMHO, and completely unnessesary. Besides that fact that it wouldn't recieve much use, it would require the loss of more beautiful wilderness, and the waste of money required (estimated at 4 billion dollars), it would hurt the local economies of the ADK's. To support this argument, consider what happenened to all of the small storefronts and motels when the northway was put in.

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Old 07-16-2009, 04:05 PM   #2
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You'll all note, of course, my typo of the word "idiotic". Bah-humbug.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:19 PM   #3
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While I also feel the "rooftop" is a terrible idea....

unless I'm greatly mistaken, it would not go through the park. Rather it would go through northern St. Lawrence county, northern Franklin county, etc. This idea has been bouncing around for a long time, but I've never heard it suggested that the highway would/should go through the ADK's.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:23 PM   #4
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unless I'm greatly mistaken, it would not go through the park. Rather it would go through northern St. Lawrence county, northern Franklin county, etc. This idea has been bouncing around for a long time, but I've never heard it suggested that the highway would/should go through the ADK's.
Ditto, it would follow what is now US Route 11. Cutting the highway through the park would require an amendment to the State Constitution similar to the one that approved I-87.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:24 PM   #5
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Would it have to cut through the preserve or would they basically widen Rt 11 and go North of the preserve?

Regardless there are other considerations.

Most important (to me) is it necessary? Is there a need for a 4 lane highway. Is the traffic congestion so bad that this use of public funds is warranted?

Secondly and perhaps of equal importance is what you mentioned, the potential economic impact of the smaller towns in/around the preserve. If the purpose is simply to speed up traffic this could result in less rest/food stops along the way in the present towns.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:41 PM   #6
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I've had similar misgivings about the re-designation of Route 17, through the Southern Tier of the state, to Interstate 86. Let's not even mention that this supposed interstate takes a long and lazy route, through the entire length of the state, to deposit travelers into western Pennsylvania after hugging the state line for 300+ miles...hardly an INTERstate.

Part of this expansion required a very large interchange just west of Corning with old Route 15 of northern PA (now re-designated as Interstate 99). This interchange looks like a massive LA Freeway and it connects a road that goes from nowhere into a road that brings you to nowhere.

Millions and millions down the tubes to bring people more quickly through rural areas...why?
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:56 PM   #7
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...Is the traffic congestion so bad...
Having traveled that route to Potsdam hundreds of times I can say that it is pretty horrendous.

1) There are limited passing lanes and when you get to them, odds are that you won't be able to pass because of oncoming traffic.

2) The speed limit is never the same for more than 5 minutes at a time because you go through several small towns and quasi-residential areas.

3) Takes an hour and a half on a good day to go the trip (70 miles)

4) It is the major route connecting Gouverneur, Canton, Potsdam & Malone to two thirds of the state. That may not sound like much, but you need to remember that there are 4 universities in Potsdam & Canton...
-SUNY Potsdam
-Clarkson
-SUNY Canton
-St Lawrence University


5) It sees a lot of truck/trailer usage due to #4

I remember many times (was actually just recounting one incident the other day) when I would be in a single line of vehicles that spanned a distance so long that you could not see either where the line started; where it ended or both.

Doesn't necessarily need to be the next 81/87, but it could be enhanced to improve on the points mentioned above.
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Old 07-16-2009, 08:46 PM   #8
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Seems like we should be working on fixing existing roads.
Rt 28 from Inlet to Blue Mtn. 28N from Long Lake to Newcomb
are two in need of serious attention. I'm sure there are many more.
The solution is simple A three year plan. Spend NO money fixing down state(NYC region) roads and direct those tax dollars for much needed repair work in the north country
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Old 07-16-2009, 08:47 PM   #9
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if it's the area I'm thinking of, (the Watertown, Potsdam, Malone route) it would basically skirt the northern edge of the park. Might not actually be a terrible idea, as long as it's not cutting through the park itself. Sp_Nyp is right, it's an odd stretch of road through lots of little towns. a pretty drive, but not one I'd want to take regularly.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:54 PM   #10
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Ditto, it would follow what is now US Route 11. Cutting the highway through the park would require an amendment to the State Constitution similar to the one that approved I-87.
I'm not in favor in any highways being constructed through the park, but I don't think the "forever wild" clause would be a problem.

It didn't stop the transfer of land for the new power line, which was built and energized before the second legislative approval. What happens if the voters say no to the amendment next November? Nothing, the state will just say, "oh well, it is already there - no do overs...."

The pre-building was a sell out of our consitutional process. Even if it was desperately needed the proper answer is to change the consitution to allow for such cases, not to simplyu ignore the required procedures when a bunch of organizations find it beneficial to do so.

We are a nation that adheres to the rule of law, and in the case of the power line we violated that concept in totality.

There is no excuse for doing so. And there is nothing to stop future violations.

The "forever wild" clause has been emasculated. It is now only an excuse to stop something that the powers that be oppose. But if the powers that be want to do something, it is a mere formality that can be complied with after the fact.
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:47 PM   #11
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As others pointed out, the rooftop highway would not be in the park at all. Any proposed plans would follow route 11. I grew up in St. Lawrence county, and have spent the majority of my life there. I've also lived in suburban California, so I've seen both ends of the spectrum.

I don't see the need to make route 11 into a four lane highway. I've made the Ogdensburg to Plattsburg trip numerous times, and while it would be nice to set the cruise control at 70 and go, not having that luxury isn't a big deal. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that there is that much industry that would benefit greatly by shortening the trip between Watertown and Plattsburg.

Some of the points that sp_nyp makes are true. And maybe growing up there I just became used to it, but I guess I feel that it is part of the price you pay for living there. It's kind of the same idea as creating an interstate that connects 81 and 87 and passes through Saranac Lake and Lake Placid. Sure it would be convenient, but it's not needed and would waste a lot of resources.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:28 PM   #12
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With regard to Rt 11

While there are parts of it that are very congested (Canton to Potsdam is obviously no fun), most of 11 is not that bad at all. Potsdam to Malone? That road is never congested. Malone to Pburg? Never been a problem for me. I think you could make a strong argument that 4 lanes from Canton to Pdam would be a good thing, but I really don't understand why anyone would want a 4 lane highway the whole way.

Just to kick a dead horse cause I'm not sure everyone got the point, the idea was never for there to be a new road built inside the park. Questions about whether or not a new highway inside the park would be legal/good/bad/whatever are besides the point because nobody is even suggesting that such a road be built.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:29 PM   #13
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HI Kyler:
Well,its about ''progress'' I guess.However,I think it would be a waste of resources as well [to put 4 lanes on Rt.11 from Watertown to Plattsburg]
[I wonder what the Amish folks would say....]
BTW,I finally took some time to peer into the gallery as well as your portraits of Goodnow.I love the North view,probably because I climbed Goodnow many years ago and saw this ,in the Autumn-beautiful.Remember when few folks[except 46ers] didn't climb Goodnow? Now ,its differant with signs up. Oh well,''progress'' I guess. Looncry
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:33 PM   #14
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Additionally, ask anyone in Plattsburg and I'm sure they couldn't care less about getting to Watertown or Syracuse quicker. They already sit on a highway that connects two of the world's major cities. The only thing people in Plattsburg want is a bridge to Burlington.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:39 PM   #15
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[I wonder what the Amish folks would say....]
It's interesting that you mention the Amish. My hometown has been somewhat overrun by them. It seems that they are the only ones who can make living as farmers these days, so they have bought up a lot of land. Last year I took a drive around the area where I grew up, and was amazed by how much of the land is Amish owned, and all of the new houses and barns that they have built. It is quite a different landscape than it was 10 or 15 years ago. They certainly don't need a highway to get anywhere.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:29 AM   #16
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I've had similar misgivings about the re-designation of Route 17, through the Southern Tier of the state, to Interstate 86. Let's not even mention that this supposed interstate takes a long and lazy route, through the entire length of the state, to deposit travelers into western Pennsylvania after hugging the state line for 300+ miles...hardly an INTERstate.

Part of this expansion required a very large interchange just west of Corning with old Route 15 of northern PA (now re-designated as Interstate 99). This interchange looks like a massive LA Freeway and it connects a road that goes from nowhere into a road that brings you to nowhere.

Millions and millions down the tubes to bring people more quickly through rural areas...why?
My guess - someone expected industry to thrive, or the industry that was there were big players in pushing the project through. Central NY is essentially a no-man's land geographically (as you say - 'rural'), but that hasn't always been the case. Once upon a time people were actually moving there for jobs... then that damn industrial revolution thing came along...

I feel sorry for whoever has to fix those interchanges... oops, I mean sucks to be the taxpayers of NY.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:38 AM   #17
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While there are parts of it that are very congested (Canton to Potsdam is obviously no fun), most of 11 is not that bad at all. Potsdam to Malone? That road is never congested. Malone to Pburg? Never been a problem for me. I think you could make a strong argument that 4 lanes from Canton to Pdam would be a good thing, but I really don't understand why anyone would want a 4 lane highway the whole way.

Just to kick a dead horse cause I'm not sure everyone got the point, the idea was never for there to be a new road built inside the park. Questions about whether or not a new highway inside the park would be legal/good/bad/whatever are besides the point because nobody is even suggesting that such a road be built.
This is not true! The newest suggestion was for it to run through the park, and through TUPPER LAKE! Tupper Lake has not shown support for it yet. They just mailed out a letter saying that they don't believe that it would have a positive impact (economically), and, as such, that thy are opposed to the idea. However, in terms of truck traffic, they are in favor.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:49 AM   #18
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This is not true! The newest suggestion was for it to run through the park, and through TUPPER LAKE! Tupper Lake has not shown support for it yet. They just mailed out a letter saying that they don't believe that it would have a positive impact (economically), and, as such, that thy are opposed to the idea. However, in terms of truck traffic, they are in favor.
Who are the people making these "suggestions"? Do you have link to a news story, or whatever?
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:21 PM   #19
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Who are the people making these "suggestions"? Do you have link to a news story, or whatever?
I found this. It looks like they are still proposing the highway to use the Route 11 corridor.

http://adirondackdailyenterprise.com....html?nav=5008

I don't see how you could build the highway where truckers would use it, but not tourists.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:51 PM   #20
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Are you intentionally trolling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBPDPTI View Post
This is not true! The newest suggestion was for it to run through the park, and through TUPPER LAKE! Tupper Lake has not shown support for it yet. They just mailed out a letter saying that they don't believe that it would have a positive impact (economically), and, as such, that thy are opposed to the idea. However, in terms of truck traffic, they are in favor.
Or just confused?

Article from the Press Republican, less than a month old, clearly states it would follow rt. 11:

http://www.pressrepublican.com/satur...170225201.html

Sen. Gillibrand's press release regarding the rooftop from July 1st, clearly states that it would follow rt. 11:

http://gillibrand.senate.gov/newsroo...1-B4C033C8C1AE

State Sen Griffo's June 23rd press release, clearly states that it would follow rt 11:
http://www.gouverneurtimes.com/index...ews&Itemid=175

Even the newest article I can find, published today, 7/17, says nothing about it going through the park:

http://northcountrynow.com/nc-this-w...rea=NCNow+News
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