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Old 05-26-2007, 10:19 PM   #41
Connie Bear Orion
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This years Japanese Knotweed in my yard , 6' tall allready. Resistant to most herbisides , and sprouts back from very small root parts if you try to dig them out by hand. The broad leafs and fast grow rate block the sun from hitting anything under them , Thus takeing over the area.







Phil

Edit to add : Those pics were from a couple of weeks ago , I just took a tape measure to them , 7' to well over 9 ' tall on 5 / 25 / 07
I found what it looked like a few days ago.
I have a book about wild edible plants and I was looking at one and dropped the book.
When I opened the book back up I saw "Japanese Knot Weed." and I looked at the picture.
I have that crap growing on a part of my property.
Never knew what the stuff was called.

Just a side note it is edible.
The young shoots can be cooked like asparagus.
And the older stuff can be peeled and made into a jam.
It is a little tart so sugar might be needed.
-- Have not tried it yet, but I like asparagus, so next spring I plan to give it a try.

Phragmites are also edible.
The roots can be used to make flour.
But an arborist buddy of mine warns that the roots do tend to suck of toxins, so be careful where you get them from.
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Old 05-27-2007, 03:20 PM   #42
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It's non-native and it has certainly taken over the Adirondacks.

And it reaches up and grabs at your ankles and tries to trip you when you bushwhack.
Viburnum lantanoides (Viburnum alnifolium) -- HOBBLEBUSH, WITCH-HOBBLE, ADIRONDACK DOGWOOD, TRIP-TOES, TANGLE-FOOT...A native shrub that will incease when overstory trees are killed off by non-native diseases and pests (e.g. beech bark disease and hemlock woolly adelgid), until something that's introduced kills it off too .
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:45 PM   #43
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Why not use exceptionally strong chemicals that will kill the plant and do some minimal dammage to the earth. Muriatic acid comes to mind its what I used on my weeds 3 years ago! No signs of return

Brian
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Old 06-27-2007, 11:55 PM   #44
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The schedule for volunteer workdays has been posted:
http://www.adkinvasives.com/terrestr...rkdays_000.doc

Depending on my work schedule I'm planning on going either 8/17 or 8/24. Any one else interested?

There are also volunteer opportunities for aquatic invasives surveys. You can pick a lake important to you to monitor.
http://www.adkinvasives.com/Aquatic/...Volunteer.html
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:37 AM   #45
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Phragmites are also edible.
The roots can be used to make flour.
But an arborist buddy of mine warns that the roots do tend to suck of toxins, so be careful where you get them from.
Uhhh, from what I remember, Phragmites loves to grow in polluted areas where other plants just can't survive (which is why it's everywhere....it just overtakes suburbia!) so I just wouldn't even recommend trying it.

Unless, you go organic.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:52 AM   #46
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Uhhh, from what I remember, Phragmites loves to grow in polluted areas where other plants just can't survive (which is why it's everywhere....it just overtakes suburbia!) so I just wouldn't even recommend trying it.

Unless, you go organic.
Have organic phragmites only been nourished by natural pollution?

Hawk
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:49 AM   #47
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On the subject of "invasive species" and the incarcerated; a simple but very effective remedy to rid the land of the TONS of garbage that has accumulated over the years by uncaring motorists etc, would be to put prison crews to work along the roads/ trails just picking up all the garbage, no expertise necessary. Make them earn their keep.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:05 AM   #48
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Have organic phragmites only been nourished by natural pollution?

Hawk
Why yes, yes they have. So if I harvest a bunch and call it natural, can I sell it online to naive folks and make my millions (so I can spend all my spare time hiking?)
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:52 AM   #49
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On the subject of "invasive species" and the incarcerated; a simple but very effective remedy to rid the land of the TONS of garbage that has accumulated over the years by uncaring motorists etc, would be to put prison crews to work along the roads/ trails just picking up all the garbage, no expertise necessary. Make them earn their keep.
They already do this (??)...
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:57 PM   #50
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Uhhh, from what I remember, Phragmites loves to grow in polluted areas where other plants just can't survive (which is why it's everywhere....it just overtakes suburbia!) so I just wouldn't even recommend trying it.

Unless, you go organic.
Phragmites grow in just about any wet area that a peice of root gets brought to.

It can grow is some polluted areas, I guess, but it grows in non-polluted areas just as well if not better.

Last edited by Connie Bear Orion; 08-01-2007 at 06:58 PM.. Reason: spelling error
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:56 AM   #51
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We ventured into the ELKs Lake region a couple of weeks ago to ascend DIX.

I tend to look at the plants that grow as we hike and noticed sme invasive plants that I had never seen before.

One was Thrush, an invasive grass that can cover large areas and chokes out other plants. Ticks here seem to use it at home for a starting point to find a host.

Also, I was surprised to see Virginia Creeper. Another invasive plant that can choke trees and offers some poisen oak/ivy type symptoms from contact.

I'd not seen either in the ADKs before.

Perhaps I just hadn't noticed before.
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:43 AM   #52
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Never heard of "thrush"; Virginia Creeper is common throughout the adirondacks, it's the first to turn red near the end of summer, it does not contain urushiol which makes the skin break out into rashes. The berries are to be shied away from. These berries contain oxalic acid, which is poisonous to humans and other mammals, and may be fatal if eaten. However, accidental poisoning is uncommon, likely because of the bad taste of the berries. Despite being poisonous to mammals, they provide an important winter food source for birds.
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Old 10-06-2007, 05:01 PM   #53
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Some phragmite posts

http://urbpan.livejournal.com/tag/phragmites

Quote:
http://forum.greenmuseum.org/viewtopic.php?t=81

I made my first works with phragmites in 1983. In 1997 when I was creating a work on the lawn of the Evanston Art Center was I told by Tor Frenger of the Marsh Arabs of the Tigris River in Iraq. There is one book written about them after the Second World War. I read the book and was fascinated by what ?native? people do with phragmites -- dwellings, mats and fences (phragmites means fences in Greek so I was told). The real experience was to go there in person and meet the people and observe what they do with them first hand.

Today on NPR it was announced that there is only 5% of the phragmites left in the Kurdish Lands. The marshes have been drained. The water diverted and the marsh has become a desert. And where the marsh was once fresh water, salt has risen. The authoritive person seemed to suggest that it could be reversed to be a marsh with phragmites again. Dams would have to be dismantled and the proposed Turkish diversion stopped.
http://www.bostonevents.com/bostonga...tid=14&webid=1

http://site.www.umb.edu/conne/leslie/intro.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=Mlk...6mM57yyt9uTTX0

http://site.www.umb.edu/conne/leslie/historypage.htm

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/home/...native_plants/

http://www.emeraldnecklace.org/index...ge=restoration

http://www.massaudubon.org/saltmarsh/salinity.php

Just some food for thought.




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Responses to a recent trip report has made me aware of the presence of the invasive plant species, Phragmites, in the Lake George wild forest. This is alarming to me as it is the first time that I have come across this plant species in the Adirondack backcountry.

I think it is important to increase awarness of this problem. If everyone here went out into the backcountry with the abiltiy to identify these plants and collect samples for positive identification maybe we could help in the control of these species. Also maybe education could help in the prevention of spreading these plant species. (I know I'll be washing my boots before heading out on my next hike!)

The Adirondack Park Invasive Plant Program is a collaboration of several agencies and organizaions formed to identify, prevent and remove invasive plant distributions. If one finds a suspected invasive plant species there is a number to call to report it. Opportunities exist to volunteer for field work to remove invasive species.

There is another site, http://www.invasiveplants.net/, which is a research project of Cornell University. They allow you to register a invasive plant species find and then send in a sample for positive identification.

If anyone has any other infomation on this subject or if anyone here is involved with any of these programs, please chime in.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:22 PM   #54
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I noticed that there wasn't much talk about invasive aquatic plants. I have a certain level of experience when it comes to this. I harvest Eurasian milfoil from a local lake. I am a certified diver and employed through the town which has NYS permits and operates under APA conditions. We measure our harvest by laundry baskets this year we took out over 500 baskets, I figured this was about 80% of the total weed in the lake. I know its the off season but I just would like to make sure boaters check your props everytime you take your boats out of the water. This is one weed that you do not want to spreed to other lakes because you will never be rid of it.
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Old 11-17-2007, 12:15 AM   #55
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How do you define "invasive"? Is it simply a change you don't like? Or does it have to be a change brought about by human activity? And if that is your criteria, does the human activity have to be something consider "unnatural" before it is objectionable? And if so, how would you draw the line between "natural" and "unnatural" human activity?

I'm left with the impression that a lot of people are upset because the world around them is changing, regardless of the cause of that change. Before we go off and try to save "dinosaurs" from extinction we should consider the consequences of trying to preserve the status quo solely for our pleasure and enjoyment.
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:18 AM   #56
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How do you define "invasive"? Is it simply a change you don't like? Or does it have to be a change brought about by human activity? And if that is your criteria, does the human activity have to be something consider "unnatural" before it is objectionable? And if so, how would you draw the line between "natural" and "unnatural" human activity?
"Invasive" as in it establishes itself and squeezes native species and their dependent species out. It's actually a biological classification.

As far as "natural" or "unnatural", it's "natural" for many diseases to kill people. Today mutated (unnatural) antibiotic resistant viruses are killing people. The mutation a result of overuse of antibiotics by humans. So what difference does it make if it's "natural" or "unnatural". Either way it's destructive or "invasive".

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I'm left with the impression that a lot of people are upset because the world around them is changing, regardless of the cause of that change. Before we go off and try to save "dinosaurs" from extinction we should consider the consequences of trying to preserve the status quo solely for our pleasure and enjoyment.
Actually, just the opposite of what you say is the problem. It has been through the attempt to change things for human pleasure, enjoyment, or more to the point, profit that many of the "dinosaurs" have been made extinct.

Some of those "dinosaurs" are actually human cultural groups. Sort of like what happened here after 1492.

When something comes about as a result of non-natural evolution, then it upsets the balance of all things. More and more evidence is being uncovered or in many cases covered up that makes this apparent.

I have had the occasion to visit one of the only two natural grasslands left in this country. Covered with nothing but native flora. It is immediately noticeably different then the "evolution" of the grasslands that surrounds it and covers the rest of the prairie states. To think that one day, no matter where you go in the world, it might all be the same, should set off alarms in all of us.

Hawk
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Old 11-17-2007, 09:51 AM   #57
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"Invasive" as in it establishes itself and squeezes native species and their dependent species out. It's actually a biological classification.
But that is nature - it is the essence of evolution. If life was in perfect balance without change then there would be no migration, no mutation, and no selective process. By your definition both the advancement and recession of the polar ice caps during the ice age were "invasive". The migration of humans out of Africa was "invasive". When fish evolved into tetrapods and began their movement to dry land it was was "invasive".

As for bacteria, I lost my fear of them when I realized that bacteria own the earth. We are mere crops for the bacteria that we host. We eat so that bacteria can live, not the other way around. It was here long before us and it will be here long after it is gone. It is the ture "native" of our planet, and as you example shows, there is virtually nothing we can do to destroy it.
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:51 AM   #58
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But that is nature - it is the essence of evolution. If life was in perfect balance without change then there would be no migration, no mutation, and no selective process. By your definition both the advancement and recession of the polar ice caps during the ice age were "invasive". The migration of humans out of Africa was "invasive". When fish evolved into tetrapods and began their movement to dry land it was was "invasive".
"Invasive" in the biological sense is a drastic and devistating change, often taking only decades to destroy numerous plant and animal species. You're referring to evolutionary changes that span millennia.

When dealing in science they have to assign certain events and outcomes classifications, otherwise each time we discuss a subject we have to go through 3,000 years of scientific explanation before we can proceed to talk about something new . Sometimes the definition, when taken out of its originating context, can overlap with conflicting defitions. Case in hand. These are the terms and intended uses for these terms. They're really not up for debate per-se. They're two separate events and outcomes.
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:58 AM   #59
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Despite being poisonous to mammals, they provide an important winter food source for birds.
Curious - do the birds eat an antigen, just eat the seed (which contains none of the acid), or are they just immune to the effects of the acid?
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Old 11-17-2007, 12:34 PM   #60
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It is the ture "native" of our planet, and as you example shows, there is virtually nothing we can do to destroy it.
I guess my example is in the eye of beholder, in other words people are going to see what they want to see as opposed to what there really is to see.

Natural means that it occurs, without interference or help by other species.

I agree that we cannot reverse what evolution creates. However, when we as a species, import either willingly or unwillingly a non native species, then WE are altering the natural evolution of things.

When we force the removal of or are the cause the extinction of any species, whether it be prey or predator, we alter the natural balance off nature as well as the evolution of species.

Period..........

Therefore since we cannot reverse evolutionary procedures would seem to indicate that we ought be a lot more mindful of the possible long term consequences of our acts. And if there is no proof that something will not damage in the long run, then it shouldn't be done, even if there is equally no proof that it will.

Hawk
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