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Old 05-08-2006, 09:04 AM   #1
schoharie_hiker
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Angry Unsafe ADK trails

If you're planning on going hiking on an ADK trail, don't assume that you'll be safe. We were harrassed all nite by some future KKK of america teens at 9 Corners Lake (just outside Caroga, NY). They threatened our lives, told us they had a gun, then they walked down the trail and smashed our window out. The last time we went there it was limited to drunk teenagers. This time they crossed the line. THIS TRAIL NEEDS MORE SUPERVISION. Don't feel safe visitting without a gun. There are way too many "kids" from near by towns that KNOW they can get away with anything they like when they go to places like this.

I found out later that morning that 2 other hikers sat and listened while this was going on. I don't expect anyone to get involved in my problems. But, please help stick up for you fellow hikers and human beings for that matter. The trail is no place for bullies and people who disrespect nature by littering everywhere they go.

Just in case anyone thinks this is an issue of beleifs, I have no problem with anyone stating their beleifs, no matter how ignorant they may seem or be. When you don't gibve others the option to not listen to your views, that's when you are doing more than making a statement. Be a racist if you want. Just keep it to yourself.

I did also catch the individuals after following (far behind) them out of the trail and witnessing them smash my window. Apparently, their family are local business owners. I will be following up with EnCOn if possible and also speaking with their parents. I hope for a better outcome to that conversation.

Has anyone else had similar experiences in the area or otherwise? Are there other trails that seem to have become "party spots"?
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After I posted this I was thinking.... IS this an ADK trail or just in the Adirondack park? I assume there's a difference. Btu, I'm not sure.
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Old 05-08-2006, 10:04 AM   #2
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No first-hand experience, and haven't heard of many tales of problems. I have heard that Jabe Pond near Hague has been a problem area. I've also heard that the parking area for the Northville-Placid Trail has had vandals. I haven't heard of many other problem areas, other than trailheads in New Hampshire.

Welcome to the forum, schoharie hiker!

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Old 05-08-2006, 10:26 AM   #3
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Unfortunately Nine Corner Lake has a reputation for high school partying and drinking ... it's a relatively short hike, and thus easy to carry beer and other "goodies" to the lake. Sad, but true.

Having access to a forum like this one may help you with future plans ... of course no one can guarantee that any particular trail will be free of unsavory characters, but at least you can get some ideas and options for places to hike and camp.

Other options in the same general area include Broomstick Lake and Jockeybush Lake, all of which are up Route 10 from the Nine Corner Lake area. There's also Good Luck Lake, but this area can sometimes also be a party place, although not that often.

and, as Dick as already said ... Welcome to the Forum!!
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Old 05-08-2006, 10:41 AM   #4
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Thanks

Thanks for the words of welcome. I love your quote at the bottom KCW. I will start to learn a little more about the trails I hike beforehand. I guess I didn't realize the value in the past. Here's a difficult question I don't know how to answer myself. But, I'm open to opinions. Is it a good idea to carry a gun while hiking?
I've never been a hunter or one to kill anything. But, I considered it after my life was threatened. I was faced with the options of either staying put and having my car vandalized or walking past these idiots and risk getting attacked. I would have left immediately if I had protection with me other than my trusty hatchet. I'd much rather avoid situations like that. But, I wonder how it would have gone had I brought a gun.
Which brings up another question. Are they allowed on ADK trails? I thought so. But I wasn't sure. I also don't want to be perceived as the scary looking redneck with a backback. Do any of you carry firearms? What's your opinion of it? It seems on the surface that it goes against alot of my beleifs. But, if it saves my life, I'd live with that.
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Old 05-08-2006, 11:11 AM   #5
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"I did also catch the individuals after following (far behind) them out of the trail and witnessing them smash my window. Apparently, their family are local business owners. I will be following up with EnCOn if possible and also speaking with their parents. I hope for a better outcome to that conversation."

I would also follow up with the NYS Police. You seem to have been the victim of a few crimes and I would let the police handle things.

"Which brings up another question. Are they allowed on ADK trails? I thought so. But I wasn't sure. I also don't want to be perceived as the scary looking redneck with a backback. Do any of you carry firearms? What's your opinion of it? It seems on the surface that it goes against alot of my beleifs. But, if it saves my life, I'd live with that."

I am vehemently opposed. Most gun owners are extremely responsible. Some are not. I am not comfortable with having to make that assessment, quickly, 10 miles from anywhere, nor do I want to take part in an OK chorale situation.

That being said, I do understand the need for self-protection. For, that I keep bear spray handy and hope that'll be good enough.

Sorry for your rotten experience.
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Old 05-08-2006, 11:25 AM   #6
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It's a pitiful shame that one can't hike without worrying if someone is armed with a gun and threatening to use it on you! That is a VERY SCAREY thought!

I have never carried a gun while hiking but never had a reason too. I always felt safe in the woods. I have to admit though, in your case, I would be a "little weary" and would probably carry one, just because the incident arose once and would definitely be paranoid every time I walked on a trail.

I just hope that this doesn't scare you enough to where you wouldn't want to hike anymore. The majority of the Hiker Community is very much respected and descent people.
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Old 05-08-2006, 11:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoharie_hiker
But, I'm open to opinions. Is it a good idea to carry a gun while hiking?
NO........... {is this a troll post? Many gun posts are }

In my opinion (and others may disagree), it is a HORRIBLE idea to bring a gun into the woods for the express purpose of self-protection. Hunting or otherwise "weapon" friendly activities aside, there really is NO need to for it that I have seen. Your situation, scary as it sounds, is an total ABERRATION for hiking in the daks. Mobs of drunken angry teens in the woods is probably limited to a few easily avoided spots.

I've hiked for many years in the Adirondacks and have run across lumbering bears, ornery ruminants and even the oddball hiker on occasion, never ONCE was the use of a weapon needed, despite how I may have felt at the time. You're far better off without one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoharie_hiker
But, I wonder how it would have gone had I brought a gun.
Probably much worse, thats for sure. WOULD YOU HAVE REALLY pulled a weapon out at a group of drunk taunting high schoolers? Seriously, I understand that you may have been scared and felt threatened, but when the weapon is pulled, that is an immediate escalation from a scary (uncomfortable) situation into one in which deadly force is possible. You are talking DEADLY FORCE here, where people potentually get killed. Not saying you would have pulled it out and started blasting, but things go downhill real fast in situations like that.. Going off the odds here, introducing a weapon (even your hatchet) into that bad situation would have started a downward spiral that could very well end up with someone DEAD, including possibly you if the weapon is taken from you.

I encourage you to report the incident to local law enforcement and I hope that these punks are held accountable for their actions. THEY SHOULD BE. Seems as you did fine getting yourself out of the scary situation without force, aside from being scared, so you did well and you can be commended for that. It does suck about the car and window though but you'll alive and likely more wise.

If you do a little research and you'll easily be able to avoid "trouble spots" such as these.
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Last edited by Mavs00; 05-08-2006 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 05-08-2006, 12:16 PM   #8
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I'm not sure what a troll post is. But, my post is really to get some advice. No alternative motives. I'm not a gun lobbiest. I've been hiking all my life. I just recently started trying to connect in some way with others that share interests. I think I know what's the right thing here. But, I'm always open to being wrong. I'm married so I have to be.

I tend to agree with you. I can actually think of ways in which a gun introduced to the situation would have made things worse. And, as it turned out, my life was never really in the danger that I thought it could be. I don't think they actually had a gun themselves. I guess I'm trying to think instead of just reacting to this. The only real logical things it seems I can do are to be more educated and selective about locations. I think I may also start carrying pepper spray or one of the more "imobilizing" self defense sprays. I've been misfortunate enough to be the recipient of one of them while playing around as a kid. And they do work!
Thanks again for the insight. It's nice to hear from folks that do this stuff. It's tough to compare to city type experiences. Also, if all goes well, I'll be having his parents pay for damages and nothing was lost but a little peace and quiet. So ...back to my original mission for a nice view, a nice walk and a safe trip home.
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Old 05-08-2006, 12:17 PM   #9
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I like reading Damon Runyan novels but I would never carry a rod unles it was of the fishing persuasion. Imagine saying to the coroner, "So, I outs with the old equalizer and the next thing ya know I've iced the kid."
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Old 05-08-2006, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoharie_hiker
The only real logical things it seems I can do are to be more educated and selective about locations. I think I may also start carrying pepper spray or one of the more "imobilizing" self defense sprays. I've been misfortunate enough to be the recipient of one of them while playing around as a kid. And they do work!.
They sure do. Probably the best bet for woods hiking. I think I have some in one of my packs somewhere too. Mostly for wildlife. Truth is, I never needed it and it probably wouldn't even work at this point

I would say certainly its a great idea to get info about potential places here first, then go for it. One rule of thumb, I think is pretty universal, the farther you get from the road, the less likely you'll run into unruly locals out partying.
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Old 05-08-2006, 01:07 PM   #11
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http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=2133

This is the jabe pond thread mentioned earlier...

I know someone who frequently carries a fire arm with them when hiking. It's their preference and I can understand why they carry it. They're also a good shot, so I doubt that any "escalation" would occur because they wouldn't miss. I'm not a gun nut and don't personally engage in hunting, but it's certainly within the realm of reason to see how a firearm could be helpful. It's not just for protect from harmful wildlife, or people, but to save hours or days of agony should you get severely injured with little hope of being found. This is, of course, relating to solo hiking. Large groups shouldn't have to worry about these things, rendering the firearm useless in group situations.
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Old 05-08-2006, 02:23 PM   #12
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Sorry to hear about your aweful experience.

My recommendation, unless Jabe pond is your favourite place is to find someplace more remote to camp. I can't imagine something like this happening at Lake Colden or Uphill brook, because usually the types of people that act like that won't hike more than 1 mile for a place to camp.

As for carrying a gun. I think you should do what you feel here. I personally would not carry a gun, nor would I be able to deal with the guilt from ending another human life, no matter how twisted. But I don't see any problems with other people carrying to protect themselves.

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Old 05-08-2006, 03:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoharie_hiker
But, I'm open to opinions. Is it a good idea to carry a gun while hiking?
NO
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Old 05-08-2006, 03:12 PM   #14
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I guess I should continue to followed my gut. The same one that kept me on the other side of the lake that day.
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Old 05-08-2006, 04:34 PM   #15
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I have no problem if someone wants to carry a gun for protection. For the most part I think licenced gun owners are responsible people and they are unlikely to have a accidental shooting. Unlike drunk people with guns.

In the unlikely event that I am or more importantly my family is a victim I want to be able to protect them. It is also unlikely I would act without restraint. I don't own a gun but would consider it as I get older and possible less able to protect myself.

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Old 05-08-2006, 08:03 PM   #16
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I would not want to say "chock up the small forested hiking areas bordering populated areas for a loss", but one other person mentioned it and I believe it to be true - the deeper in you go the less likely you will come across a few bored punks with nothing better to do. I think those type of people are lazy and like convenience - they'll stick to areas close to their towns.

But I've always been slightly concerned with one "hiding" or twisted sicko that may wonder off deep into the woods, where they could possibly get away with victimizing solitary individuals.
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Old 05-08-2006, 08:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool
But I've always been slightly concerned with one "hiding" or twisted sicko that may wonder off deep into the woods, where they could possibly get away with victimizing solitary individuals.
I'd be MUCH more worried about encountering such an individual on the streets of some large cities.
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Old 05-08-2006, 08:26 PM   #18
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Hello - I carry a gun every day of my life - it's an occupational hazard - I go to the woods to NOT carry a weapon - I do enjoy hunting and obviously carry a gun then - but when Im hiking - I leave the gun home - just a thought - look up Penal Law section 35 - the justification of using deadly physical force - you might just be asking for trouble iffn you start shooting folks - the standard is usually if you can retreat - if you cant retreat any more - then justification might be there - read up on the self defense issues and think twice - act once....
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Old 05-08-2006, 08:28 PM   #19
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I wonder if Golite makes guns?
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Old 05-08-2006, 08:40 PM   #20
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Mountain house makes them - just add boiling water......if that dont work - hit em with some stale jerky....
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