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Old 03-13-2014, 07:58 PM   #61
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Damn shame's what it is.
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:45 PM   #62
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The same could happen here. They need protection from humans "protecting" themselves unnecessarily or just spoiling for a kill.
The DEC all but laughs at you if you report a sighting.
The cats that I have seen here in NYS were both amazing and spectacular animals. I hope they are still alive somewhere. I would rather no one ever confirms my sightings if the ultimate result is that they get shot.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:28 PM   #63
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The same could happen here. They need protection from humans "protecting" themselves unnecessarily or just spoiling for a kill.
The DEC all but laughs at you if you report a sighting.
The cats that I have seen here in NYS were both amazing and spectacular animals. I hope they are still alive somewhere. I would rather no one ever confirms my sightings if the ultimate result is that they get shot.
Agreed. The one I saw in May, 2011, near Castle Creek on Rte. 81, was just that sort of animal. I still believe it was the one that ended up dead in Conneticut. I hope I'm wrong and it's still out there.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:24 PM   #64
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Damn shame's what it is.
Damn shame, but the Tribune editorial got it nearly perfect, eliciting this response from IL DNR Director, Marc Miller.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:54 AM   #65
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From Miller's message:

"While we believe this and other recent confirmed mountain lion sightings are isolated occurrences for now, we have been actively preparing for the time when mountain lions, wolves, and black bears may once again establish populations in the state. We have funded scientific research where suitable habitat models have been developed for these species, and have also researched attitudes and opinions of Illinoisans regarding these large carnivores…"

That habitat research came from Julia Smith's Master's thesis, which she reviewed in meetings with IL DNR wildlife staff and officials.

Miller says of IL DNR, "We believe there is room on our Illinois landscape for apex predators."

Room for apex predators in a state which is a virtual corn desert, with nothing approaching the forested expanses of the Adirondack or Catskill preserves.
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:20 PM   #66
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Great note Gulo.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:35 PM   #67
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Adirondacks deserves healthy biodiversity

Any healthy, even moderately healthy ecosystem requires balance between predator and prey. This is true on every region on the planet Earth from deserts, to jungle, in the sea and yes, in the Adirondack park. Every time I hear talk about the "fictitious" risks to a prey species, by allowing room for a natural predator to simply exist in its home range, I am perplexed. Wolves and Cougars did not become naturally extinct in the Adirondack region, they were intentionally slaughtered to remove them by astoundingly ignorant people thinking it would improve of all things, hunting (please think for a moment about that irony). The only thing that the effort to remove predators actually succeeded in spreading, was far more lead in our watersheds. My how things are as true today as they were in the 19 and early 20th century... Yes, Cougars belong here not for shooting by incredibly small minds with foolishly large rifles (a sign of fear of what they don't understand) but because they actually "do" belong here. Truth be told we are not truly "forever wild" until we stop listening to big business media sheep (sports hunting) and start being real humans again...
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:41 PM   #68
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Any healthy, even moderately healthy ecosystem requires balance between predator and prey. This is true on every region on the planet Earth from deserts, to jungle, in the sea and yes, in the Adirondack park. Every time I hear talk about the "fictitious" risks to a prey species, by allowing room for a natural predator to simply exist in its home range, I am perplexed. Wolves and Cougars did not become naturally extinct in the Adirondack region, they were intentionally slaughtered to remove them by astoundingly ignorant people thinking it would improve of all things, hunting (please think for a moment about that irony). The only thing that the effort to remove predators actually succeeded in spreading, was far more lead in our watersheds. My how things are as true today as they were in the 19 and early 20th century... Yes, Cougars belong here not for shooting by incredibly small minds with foolishly large rifles (a sign of fear of what they don't understand) but because they actually "do" belong here. Truth be told we are not truly "forever wild" until we stop listening to big business media sheep (sports hunting) and start being real humans again...
Well stated, I agree 100%.
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Old 03-16-2014, 06:02 PM   #69
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Any healthy, even moderately healthy ecosystem requires balance between predator and prey. This is true on every region on the planet Earth from deserts, to jungle, in the sea and yes, in the Adirondack park. Every time I hear talk about the "fictitious" risks to a prey species, by allowing room for a natural predator to simply exist in its home range, I am perplexed. Wolves and Cougars did not become naturally extinct in the Adirondack region, they were intentionally slaughtered to remove them by astoundingly ignorant people thinking it would improve of all things, hunting (please think for a moment about that irony). The only thing that the effort to remove predators actually succeeded in spreading, was far more lead in our watersheds. My how things are as true today as they were in the 19 and early 20th century... Yes, Cougars belong here not for shooting by incredibly small minds with foolishly large rifles (a sign of fear of what they don't understand) but because they actually "do" belong here. Truth be told we are not truly "forever wild" until we stop listening to big business media sheep (sports hunting) and start being real humans again...
Not all hunters are against apex predators!
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:15 AM   #70
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Not all hunters are against apex predators!
Not even close. Most surveys show wide hunter support for predator recovery. It's the vocal minority, those who generally think ungulate populations (and/or livestock) will be decimated - and state game agency culture - that wants nothing to do with big predator recovery.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:28 AM   #71
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Under cover at the Idaho Coyote & Wolf Derby.

Coyote derbies are permitted in NY State.

Last edited by gulo; 03-17-2014 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:12 AM   #72
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Not even close. Most surveys show wide hunter support for predator recovery. It's the vocal minority, those who generally think ungulate populations (and/or livestock) will be decimated - and state game agency culture - that wants nothing to do with big predator recovery.
I think you are correct. Thats begs the question, why not organize the hunters to petition for the return of the predators and the protections needed for them? Seems to me the agencies are more inclined to listen to them then to the organized conservationists and environmentalists.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:49 PM   #73
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Thats begs the question, why not organize the hunters to petition for the return of the predators and the protections needed for them?
Working on it.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:08 PM   #74
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Yeah, I'm irked when some publication or group claims it speaks for all hunters, as if we all think alike--and that goes to show that those groups and publications think of us as a herd. In other words, they sterotype us just as some of the anti-hunters do.

For example, when the state was thinking about legalizing bobcat trapping & hunting in my part of southwestern New York, I knew quite a few hunters who were opposed because they believed bobcats were not that well established here. Nonetheless, the season was opened on bobcat.

Another example: although they are a small minority, I actually know hunters who support the SAFE act, which must be sin #1 against the 10 commandments for hunters issued by the SPOKESPEOPLE.

And yet another: One hunting & fishing publication for New Yorkers is forever headlining legalize-crossbow-hunting stuff, which is an issue that hunters are split on, though you wouldn't know it by reading the publication. Of course, there's money to be made from adverstisers if crossbow hunting is legalized. You won't read nearly as much there on the topic of the threat posed by "wild" pigs to the deer and turkey populations, but of course the publication accepts ads from "game preserves" (places where you can pay a small fortune to shoot a fenced in and fattened pig or other critter).

When someone pretends to speak for all of us, follow the money.

But to finally get back to the issue that prompted my ranting here--yeah, I know hunters who would not object to the wolf & cougar in NYS and who don't consider the coytote to be public enemy # 1. It's hilarious when those who do object also talk about their deep love of nature and how hunting is necessary to keep the deer population in check.

Count me in, Gulo.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:51 PM   #75
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"I think you are correct. Thats begs the question, why not organize the hunters to petition for the return of the predators and the protections needed for them? Seems to me the agencies are more inclined to listen to them then to the organized conservationists and environmentalists."

I wouldn't mind seeing the Cougar establish itself here and be protected but
don't we already have predators? Coywolf and Bobcat and Black Bear?
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:14 AM   #76
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[QUOTE=mphilli2;215154]Yeah, I'm irked when some publication or group claims it speaks for all hunters, as if we all think alike--and that goes to show that those groups and publications think of us as a herd. In other words, they sterotype us just as some of the anti-hunters do.

Amen
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:39 AM   #77
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Its great to hear that some hunters share my opinions.



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