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Old 12-17-2013, 06:46 PM   #1
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Adirondack Council: Gray wolf still endangered

Adirondack Council: Gray wolf still endangered

ELIZABETHTOWN Adirondack environmentalists want the gray wolf to remain on the Endangered Species list.

http://www.pressrepublican.com/0100_...ill-endangered
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:46 AM   #2
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The gray wolf was de-listed a few years ago and there are quota based hunting seasons in the Western states, including Wisconsin.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:50 PM   #3
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The gray wolf was de-listed a few years ago and there are quota based hunting seasons in the Western states, including Wisconsin.
That is True. It is also true to say that the delisting of wolves from the ESA in the state's where wolves do not currently have a breeding population (NYS, OH, PA, etc.) would open up hunting/trapping in these states and seriously jeopardize the wolves' ability to recolonize their historic range, including the good 'ole Adirondacks.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #4
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That is True. It is also true to say that the delisting of wolves from the ESA in the state's where wolves do not currently have a breeding population (NYS, OH, PA, etc.) would open up hunting/trapping in these states and seriously jeopardize the wolves' ability to recolonize their historic range, including the good 'ole Adirondacks.
OK, let's see if I have this right: The ADK Council wants to put an animal that doesn't exist here on the Endangered Species List? So that an animal that doesn't exist here doesn't get hunted or trapped here?

Am I understanding this right?
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:11 PM   #5
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OK, let's see if I have this right: The ADK Council wants to put an animal that doesn't exist here on the Endangered Species List? So that an animal that doesn't exist here doesn't get hunted or trapped here?

Am I understanding this right?
Yes. However, the wolf is still currently listed on the Endangered Species Act in the states where there is no breeding population. It was delisted from the ESA a number of years ago in states where there is a breeding population ( Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, etc). The Fish and Wildlife Service is now proposing to completely delist the grey wolf in all states, even in states where the wolf has not yet recolonized it's former range. I would argue this is why it is premature to completely delist the grey wolf. They don't stand a chance at recolonizing the Adirondacks, for instance, if they lose their protections in the states between the ADKs and their current breeding grounds.

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Old 12-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #6
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OK, let's see if I have this right: The ADK Council wants to put an animal that doesn't exist here on the Endangered Species List? So that an animal that doesn't exist here doesn't get hunted or trapped here?

Am I understanding this right?
I am certain there are a limited number of wolves of some type in the ADK's now. If they have some protection they would repopulate on there own. The obstacle to further repopulation is they have no protection here in Ontario. Two large black canids spent all last winter less than 10 miles from the St Lawrence. They were seen by lots of people but every redneck within 50 miles tried to kill them.

We need a special designation and protection of wildlife for the Adirondack to Algonquin (A2A) corridor. If wolves were protected here they'd be in the ADK's.
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:01 PM   #7
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They don't stand a chance at recolonizing the Adirondacks, for instance, if they lose their protections in the states between the ADKs and their current breeding grounds.
Not necessarily true. Just because the feds delist doesn't mean states automatically do. The USFWS is in the process of delisting the eastern cougar (a subspecies that never existed), but New York protects all six genetic subspecies (5 Central/South American and 1 North American; meaning former captives bred from Latin America stock that may appear in NY are protected) by listing the entire Genus as protected.

Which is not to say that the federal delisting of wolves hasn't been an absolute travesty.
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:07 PM   #8
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I think you are a little confused about nys's protection of animals. Just because its not an endangered species, doesn't mean that its open season all year long to kill as many as you want. Almost ALL animals are protected in NY to some extent. Until NY opens a wolf hunting season, it will remain unlawful to shoot a wolf in NY. Endangered or not endangered.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:50 PM   #9
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Let's say there might be a wolf around or one might wander into NY, you are not suppose to shoot a wolf but you can pretty much shoot coyote willy nilly. How would the average knucklehead differentiate between the two?
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:58 PM   #10
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How would the average knucklehead differentiate between the two?
DNA test after it is dead.

Heck we couldn't tell a grey fox from a coyote on here, myself included...
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #11
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Let's say there might be a wolf around or one might wander into NY, you are not suppose to shoot a wolf but you can pretty much shoot coyote willy nilly. How would the average knucklehead differentiate between the two?
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DNA test after it is dead.

Heck we couldn't tell a grey fox from a coyote on here, myself included...
One of the fundamental rules of discharging a firearm: KNOW what you are shooting at. If you don't, then don't shoot! Simple as that.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:08 PM   #12
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One of the fundamental rules of discharging a firearm: KNOW what you are shooting at. If you don't, then don't shoot! Simple as that.
Well that is quite the persuasive argument! I must be simple as I think I might have a tough time telling a big coyote from a small wolf. I don't shoot coyotes but there are plenty who do but I am sure everyone follows the rules, especially the fundamental ones.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:26 PM   #13
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Well that is quite the persuasive argument! I must be simple as I think I might have a tough time telling a big coyote from a small wolf. I don't shoot coyotes but there are plenty who do but I am sure everyone follows the rules, especially the fundamental ones.
Ask the farmers with cows that are shot about that!!
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:22 PM   #14
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a related report:

DNA Testing to Determine If Animal Shot is Wolf

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/12/...-shot-is-wolf/

I agree with l'oiseau re the questionable i.d. of certain wildlife by hunters and non-hunters. I also saw an i.d. mistake made by a bow hunter who said he shot a coyote and had the picture of it laying in front of him but the coyote was really a gray fox.

we just don't know if a wolf or mt. lion hasn't been killed in nys in recent times. not everyone wants to talk about it or report it - even the nysdec. remember the case of the mt. lion in lake George - I believe in dec. 2010. a retired encon officer and a nysdec employee had proof but withheld info and kept it a secret until it was killed on a highway in connecticut. i'm sure others in nys knew about this but it was kept a secret. even the mayor of lake george wasn't informed.
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:46 PM   #15
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Well that is quite the persuasive argument! I must be simple as I think I might have a tough time telling a big coyote from a small wolf. I don't shoot coyotes but there are plenty who do but I am sure everyone follows the rules, especially the fundamental ones.
Hahaha....here's one way I identify them. Since most I see are at a distance (and at dusk or daybreak) and we still have a lot of page wire fences even in forested areas. I watch'em (if I can) till they come to a fence. A coyote goes THRU the fence....even on a dead run it cants its body sideways and scoots right thru!! Sometimes it goes underneath. But if it runs right up to it and sails over top without missing a stride....even with a foot of snow on the ground you can bet it has plenty of wolf in it.

I have some foxhounds 25" tall, 60 lbs. that are real athletes but none jump fences like that.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:00 AM   #16
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Northeast Wolf Coalition press release and position statement on proposed gray wolf delisting.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:57 AM   #17
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http://www.theguardian.com/environme...iowa-shot-dead
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:55 AM   #18
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It's encouraging that a bill to protect wolves, cougars and bears in Illinois is expected to pass the state legislature - http://www.bnd.com/2014/05/08/319894...s-cougars.html
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