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Old 11-15-2012, 05:26 PM   #21
dpc34
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where did the # 20 come from, that is an old bear..nice but old..
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #22
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It is interesting to think that landfill scenes like those mentioned here were common 30 or 40 years ago - yet today most people seem to assume habituated bears pose an imminent threat to people.

These "dump bear communities" were found all across rural America too. Some of the more well known ones were in Minnesota, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. In those locations, communities fed large populations of bears (20+), sometimes for 40 years or more!

There is even a famous study done in Yosemite where the wild bear population was habituated to the point that tourists were taking photos next to them, luring them into their cars, and even having them lick honey off of their children! Crazy, right?

Yet as best as I can tell, from all of the studies and accounts available, none of these areas had problems with bear attacks or aggression beyond occasional bluff behavior (there were certainly no fatal attacks.)

So while it is absolutely good, especially for the bears, that we have shifted away from encouraging such blatant habituation... I still have to wonder what accounts for this new notion that if a bear does happen to become habituated, that it is dangerous to the point it needs to be killed. It certainly doesn't seem to be backed by any scientific evidence.
It isn't. It's just the easiest solution to problem people. Many places out west have adopted a different technique to the "people problem". They have regulations in place (as opposed to "suggestions" which don't work) allowing the rangers to confiscate any food or utensils that are not stored or cleaned properly as well as write a ticket with a stiff fine. In many cases if there is a large amount of bear activity in a particular area, they close that area off to humans.

Isn't it Ironic that habituated bears become lazy and greedy? It's almost as if they are evolving into another species. Or perhaps I should say devolving.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:39 AM   #23
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It isn't. It's just the easiest solution to problem people. Many places out west have adopted a different technique to the "people problem". They have regulations in place (as opposed to "suggestions" which don't work) allowing the rangers to confiscate any food or utensils that are not stored or cleaned properly as well as write a ticket with a stiff fine. In many cases if there is a large amount of bear activity in a particular area, they close that area off to humans.

Isn't it Ironic that habituated bears become lazy and greedy? It's almost as if they are evolving into another species. Or perhaps I should say devolving.
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I witnessed a confiscation of gear left on a picnic table in Yellowstone. Yellowstone and Glacier ( sure there are many others , but those were the two we visited) as well as Waterton had specific instructions to campers not to leave gear associated with food on the table.

Well the ranger confiscated a cooler and a water jug left on a table as the occupants were on a walk around the loop. Their response was they got mad and pleaded they did not know.. They lost their cooler and got whacked with a $200 fine.

Now who is devolving? People will simply still not take any personal responsibility.

I can remember Yellowstone in the '60s with the bear feeding car jams. While no one may have been killed, as a teenager I heard about plenty of injuries to hands and arms.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:44 PM   #24
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I can remember Yellowstone in the '60s with the bear feeding car jams. While no one may have been killed, as a teenager I heard about plenty of injuries to hands and arms.
The study done on the Yosemite bears confirms your memory of hand and arm injuries. It refers to what are known as nips and slaps, which are common bluff behaviors in black bears (a step up from charging and snorting, which is what most people experience when they think a bear is "attacking" them) - the study doesn't report anything major, but one can imagine how being nipped at or slapped by a bear could cause some injuries. Especially if you were pouring beer over its head, which was apparently not an uncommon move by tourists back then. Can you imagine!?

Outside of extreme situations like the car jams in Yosemite, that type of escalated bluffing appears to be rare.

Last edited by Holdstrong; 11-16-2012 at 05:27 PM..
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:01 PM   #25
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My questions is, what happens to the three cubs she had birthed earlier this year? Will they make it through the winter? If not, then is Yellow Yellow's lineage coming to an end?
Are they this year's cubs or last year's? I'm guessing, based on your post, someone saw her with three cubs that she had earlier this year?

I live close to where she was killed. Just around the time she was killed I had at least one cub go through; I cannot tell if there were more, but I was surprised by the size of the markings, as I would have expected to see a mama's markings alongside them. I think I'm on a fairly regular path between summer territory and hibernation territory, as I get the same pattern of markings almost every year at this time. Sometimes it's a single adult and sometimes it's a mama and cub. This year it looked like only cub, and I was surprised at the fact that I had no adult bear's markings alongside it based on the size of the markings. Could be anyone's cubs I suppose, and I thought that if it was a cub it must be a yearling cause someone would have taught the cub to mark exactly those spots. But again, that's a guess, as I can only go on their signs.

Anyone know if this year's cubs would make it through hibernation? I kind of doubt it but I'm not positive. Maybe some people around Jay can keep an eye out for tracks, I know I will.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #26
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Hi Gregg, I'm with you - I am so saddened by this. I had an experience with her a few years back when someone left garbage hanging in a tree next to the lean too we discovered empty and took one night. She came into our camp to try to get the garbage out of the tree and my dog ( a small king charles cavalier) chased her. I thought for sure my dog would be dead - but Yellow Yellow just ran away. Finn saved us but that's exactly why you don't leave garbage in a tree!!!!
I hope those cubs are taken care of
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:13 AM   #27
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I hope those cubs are taken care of
I was going to try to call DEC and find out but was hoping to confirm the fact that she had three cubs this year.

If any hunters or hikers spot her cubs or their tracks in the Jay area, please PM me. I can attempt to work with a wildlife re-habber (i.e. licensed, legal) to see what could be done to get her cubs through the winter.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:25 PM   #28
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Don't mess with Mother Nature-she can be a bitch.....
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:03 PM   #29
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If any hunters or hikers spot her cubs or their tracks in the Jay area, please PM me. I can attempt to work with a wildlife re-habber (i.e. licensed, legal) to see what could be done to get her cubs through the winter.
How would a hunter or hiker differentiate those cubs, or their tracks, from any others in the area? What could a "wildlife re-habber" teach them that life in the woods couldn't? And how would one go about helping those cubs make it through the winter without encouraging the same reliance on humans that caused so many problems for their mother?

It's a tough world for all critters, let nature take it's course, they'll either make the winter or they won't. Bears aren't exactly an endangered species in the Adirondacks and plenty of sows with cubs are legally killed every year.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:11 PM   #30
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Assuming she was with cubs, it would have been illegal to shoot her in the Southern Zone: "In the Southern Zone, hunters may not shoot a cub, shoot any bear from a group of bears, or shoot or take a bear from its den."

Anyone know why the law in the NZ is different from the law in the SZ re bears w/cubs?

And this means it is legal to shoot denned bears in the NZ. . . ?
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:36 AM   #31
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If it's their first year they would have a very low chance of survival. A wildlife re-habber simply helps them get through the winter and releases them, they are licensed and know what they are doing - wildlife re-hab is a not some big political statement, it's a pretty routine undertaking. Regarding tracking, if there are three first year cubs without a mother, it would be apparent to anyone who frequents the area.
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