Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Hiking in the Adirondacks > Northville Placid Trail
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-04-2019, 03:50 PM   #1
snapper
snapper
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: central NYS
Posts: 283
bear canisters on the NPT

Hey Folks - I'm not always the brightest bulb on the porch but I do try to pay attention to changes in rules and regulations as they pertain to NYS lands. In a recent YouTube video the person making it said that as of 2020 bear canisters would be required over the entire length of the NPT. My first reaction was when did this happen? My next question was is this correct? So if anyone out there has the answer, I'd appreciate hearing about it. No sense in not playing by the rules on future trips if a canister is going to be required.

And hey, if nothing else, I can actually put something down on my Christmas list when my kids ask me what I want this year

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper
snapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 04:02 PM   #2
dundee
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,633
No, not the entire length, but in the Western High Peaks (the Cold River section.)
dundee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 12:36 PM   #3
snapper
snapper
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: central NYS
Posts: 283
Dundee - Thanks for that. I knew about the change coming to the High Peaks and forgot that stretch along Long Lake up to the northern terminus was in that range so it looks like it's time to retire the Ursack and get a canister.

As for the YouTube "personality," this is why I always take the information gained from those videos with a bit of suspicion. Hey, just because some person says it, doesn't make it true.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper
snapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 06:11 PM   #4
dundee
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,633
personally, I don't like the can law for the WHP. It's not necessary and I've written a letter. I invite you to do the same , if you're interested.
dundee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 06:25 PM   #5
ILikeRocks
Member
 
ILikeRocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rome, NY
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by dundee View Post
personally, I don't like the can law for the WHP. It's not necessary and I've written a letter. I invite you to do the same , if you're interested.
I agree, I think Iíll do the same, not sure what good it will do it canít hurt.
ILikeRocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 07:51 PM   #6
dundee
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,633
Maybe if enough people write....

There are places that see very little traffic and will never have a bear problem, Number Four LTs, the Cold River horse trail and most if not all of the NP.
dundee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 10:04 PM   #7
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,564
I could be wrong but I’m thinking it’ll probably be one of those new DEC regulations that exist on paper but is not necessarily strictly enforced, and is mostly on the discretion of the Ranger in charge. In other words, if you’re careful & responsible with your food & keep a clean camp along the NPT portion of the WHP region then you’ll probably be ok. If you’re not & give DEC a hard time about it when confronted then...when it becomes a problem it will be a problem that needs to be enforced more.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 01:01 PM   #8
Terasec
Member
 
Terasec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 193
haven't seen such reg for 2020, not even in public comment stage
will only go by current regs
NYSDEC requires the use of Bear Resistant Canisters, as defined in regulation, by overnight users in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness between April 1 And November 30.
NYSDEC encourages campers to use bear resistant canisters throughout the Adirondack and Catskill backcountry.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7225.html
Terasec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 01:45 PM   #9
DuctTape
Out of Shape
 
DuctTape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,797
https://www.adk.org/changes-to-high-...oming-in-2020/



UMP Amendment pdf to download:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...AO3wqVMbeFGs7j
__________________
"There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service

My trail journal: DuctTape's Journal
DuctTape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2019, 10:24 AM   #10
Terasec
Member
 
Terasec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuctTape View Post
see change they are implementing is as follows

 Bear canister regulation o Adjust dates of requiring a bear canister to the beginning of May till the end of October
o Add that bear canisters used by the public must be from a Department- approved list, which will be updated annually on our website.
o Change bear canisters required in Central High Peaks Zone and Outer High Peaks Zone
Terasec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 04:50 PM   #11
DSettahr
ɹǝqɯǝɯ
 
DSettahr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,739
Yeah, the planned changes are due out sometime next year. The public comment period for the changes was the same as the public comment period (last year) for the High Peaks UMP Amendment- the regulatory changes were proposed as part of that amendment.

As pointed out the changes are two fold:
  • Instead of going with a general definition of what constitutes a "bear canister," the new regs will refer to a list promulgated by the department of approved brands and models. I.e., the BearVault brand canisters will no longer be legal to use.
  • The bear canister requirement will be expanded to the Outer High Peaks- which comprises the former Dix Mountain Wilderness as well as the former Western High Peaks.
Of note is that (under the proposed regulation) the bear canister requirement will not be expanded to cover the Adirondack Canoe Route- which includes the NPT lean-tos and tent sites on the shore of Long Lake. In other words, NPT thru-hikers (at least northbound ones) won't legally need to fit everything into their bear canisters until they leave Plumleys and arrive at the Cold River at Shattuck Clearing. This does give some "wiggle room" in regards to canister usage as for most thru-hikers, only 2-3 nights worth of food (at most) will need to fit in the canister.
DSettahr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 05:18 PM   #12
dundee
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSettahr View Post

Of note is that (under the proposed regulation) the bear canister requirement will not be expanded to cover the Adirondack Canoe Route- which includes the NPT lean-tos and tent sites on the shore of Long Lake. In other words, NPT thru-hikers (at least northbound ones) won't legally need to fit everything into their bear canisters until they leave Plumleys and arrive at the Cold River at Shattuck
This is incredibly stupid! If there is going to be a bear problem in the WHP it will be at one of the Long Lake lean-to, not at Ouluska Pass or Cold River 1&2. And virtually no one goes to the LTs on the horse trail. Is anyone at DEC thinking?
dundee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 09:41 PM   #13
DuctTape
Out of Shape
 
DuctTape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by dundee View Post
This is incredibly stupid! If there is going to be a bear problem in the WHP it will be at one of the Long Lake lean-to, not at Ouluska Pass or Cold River 1&2. And virtually no one goes to the LTs on the horse trail. Is anyone at DEC thinking?
Yeah. Especially considering their stated rationale for expansion is to eliminate exclusions and complexities so that user groups know where they are required, as in "the entire zone". Yet the canoe route exclusion still exists and is more difficult for the average user to determine. And if not, then an NPT corridor of 500' from the trail is also easily understood.
__________________
"There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service

My trail journal: DuctTape's Journal
DuctTape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 10:16 PM   #14
TCD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by dundee View Post
This is incredibly stupid! If there is going to be a bear problem in the WHP it will be at one of the Long Lake lean-to, not at Ouluska Pass or Cold River 1&2. And virtually no one goes to the LTs on the horse trail. Is anyone at DEC thinking?
"Is anyone at DEC thinking?" Simple answer: No.

They are scrambling with inadequate resources to follow orders from above. I know from conversations that these orders are not allowed to be questioned. So wherever in the higher bureaucracy that these orders are coming from, you've got people that don't know sh** and never set foot in the woods passing dictates that the poor bastards at the work level have to try to follow and promulgate.

I took my dog up Dix mountain the other day. Nice hike. Took an hour to find the "dog rules" for Dix on the messed up DEC site. all sorts of obsolete pages that contradicted each other. No time to fix it - busy spraying out new rules.
TCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 03:04 PM   #15
supertaco
Member
 
supertaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: New Hope, PA
Posts: 3
Funny sidebar, I purchased the smaller BC450 canister because of this thread mainly for weekend overnight hikes with my wife I think my wife thinks using a canister will absolutely keep bears away! Let's keep that going.
supertaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 11:03 AM   #16
Terasec
Member
 
Terasec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 193
 A designated primitive campsite is one identified by a DEC permissive sign or disk and campers may not camp in excess of 15 feet from such signs or disks. To define proper camp locations, disperse use and limit adverse impacts to resources and other campers, a regulation will be adopted to prohibit camping further than 15 feet from a camping disk throughout the HPWC.
---------------------
no more primitive camping as I know it
expect this to eventually go beyond high peaks region
as other states have been doing
Terasec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:08 PM   #17
DSettahr
ɹǝqɯǝɯ
 
DSettahr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terasec View Post
 A designated primitive campsite is one identified by a DEC permissive sign or disk and campers may not camp in excess of 15 feet from such signs or disks. To define proper camp locations, disperse use and limit adverse impacts to resources and other campers, a regulation will be adopted to prohibit camping further than 15 feet from a camping disk throughout the HPWC.
---------------------
no more primitive camping as I know it
expect this to eventually go beyond high peaks region
as other states have been doing
I believe (not 100% sure on this) that the sentence stating that camping will be permitted at designated sites only across the entire High Peaks Wilderness Complex is a typo. Rather, the new regulation will apply to the Central High Peaks (the former Eastern High Peaks) and the Canoe Route only.

What other states used to allow dispersed camping that have recently restricted it to designated sites only? I'm not aware of any off the top of my head.

EDIT: The UMP amendment says different things depending on where you look. One section says camping at designated sites only across the entire HPWC. At least one other section says just the Central High Peaks and the Canoe Route only.

Last edited by DSettahr; 10-03-2019 at 12:38 PM..
DSettahr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 01:37 PM   #18
Lucky13
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 503
This would be a good thing to communicate to the plan managers.
Lucky13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 01:44 PM   #19
Woodly
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SNY
Posts: 338
We're going to need rules and regulations books to carry on our hikes and camping trips. Of course maybe when we buy our permits they'll be included in the price...not.
Woodly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.