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Old 05-22-2008, 04:44 PM   #1
sp_nyp
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I'm Lost

As requested by "Drifter" in the following thread: http://adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=8925

I went out hunting in the southwest region of the park. It is november and the temperature has been moderate to cold. When I woke in the morning there were a couple inches of fresh snow on the ground. I decided to go out and see if I could find any fresh tracks in the snow.

I leave wearing a medium-weight fleece jacket over a PolarTec long sleeve top and a wool shirt. I also have on boots, leather w/ gortex, PolarTec leggings with wool pants over them. A pair of thin gloves. Also, a baseball style cap.

I am carrying with me:
- a rifle w/ 6 rounds of ammuntion
- two compasses
- 1 quadrangle map
- a 20oz bottle of water
- two fruit/granola bars
- a pen
- various lengths/sizes rope
- winter hat & gloves
- rubber gloves
- 4" lockblade knife
- multi-tool
- small pair of binocs
- the junk in my wallet (assorted $$, receipts & cards)
- regular analog wristwatch

Let's say I had forgotten to pack a match container or a zippo.

I leave early in the morning with the snow still on the ground. I begin up an old homesteader trail heading north off of a seasonal road. About 3/4 of a mile up the trail I decide to wander east along a ridge of fairly thick hardwoods.

About a half a mile along this ridge I cut a set of tracks heading deeper into the woods and decide to follow them. I still hunt along them, attempting to keep my bearings using the sun and the occasional compass check.

At some point the snow has all but melted and I am no longer able to follow the tracks (the deer tracks fwd or mine in rev). I check for the sun to get some kind of a bearing and a heavy cloud bank has rolled in and there is no chance of pinpointing direction that way. Worse yet, it looks like it may rain.

I look at my watch and determine I have been out for a total of 5 hours. I pull out my compass and check its bearing. I pull out my other compass just to confirm and I get a totally different reading. Both compasses are typically 100% percent reliable, but obviously at least one is not correct, if not both???

I look around and find myself in all unfamiliar woods and I did not see any other signs of human activity all day - tracks or trails (other than the initial trail). I think to myself, ok, it is official, I am lost.

Let me know if you need any further details.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:10 PM   #2
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First thing's first: I would take a deep breath, reverse my direction for some 5-10 minutes, and re-check my compasses. It's possible that I was standing over the mother lode and that, by removing myself, I could give these tools the opportunity to correspond once again.

If the compasses refuse to agree, I would then smash the one I guess is more likely the culprit (or is the cheapest), take out the needle, take off my wool sock, rub the needle vigrously within the wool sock for several minutes, and then place the needle on a leaf in the middle of a small pool of water.

If the needle seems to move the leaf at all and points north, I would check the result with my remaining compass. If it matches, I know that I both know north and have a reliable compass remaining. If it doesn't, then I have a choice: assume that the second compass is busted, or assume that the leaf trick didn't work, or both. Each are not equally divided as a visual inspection of the leaf trick might give me a better sense as to whether the needle became magnetized or not.

I've done the leaf trick with a plain old needle, and it worked to within 10-15 degrees or so most of the time.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:12 PM   #3
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Critical omission;

Did you leave any kind of itinerary with anyone as to what area you would be in and a "if you don't hear from me by _____, call the ranger? In other words, when and where are people going to start looking. That has a bearing on whether to stay in one place or move on.

And have you roamed completely outside the area of your quad?

Have you tried moving and seeing if your compasses 'correct" you might be near some iron deposits.

Have you considered breaking one of the compasses and putting the needle in a non metalic container of water to determine your North and South Line?

Were there any lakes or streams that you walked along or crossed while following the track? Have you looked back at the terrain you have covered as you followed the tracks?
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:18 PM   #4
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Have your compasses matched all day long or haven't you checked?

You should have a general idea of where you are based on your estimated time afield and general direction of travel.


Without shelter or means to stay dry, I'd take a stab at trying to get back to the truck. Trying to wait it out in a cold soaking November rain will likely kill you anyway.

First, move along in the direction you think is right, keeping an eye on your compasses. You might be in an isolated spot where local attraction is causing the discrepancy in magnetic readings. Are you by a lake? Can you look at the tree tops to see if you can discern which way prevailing winds have affected the limb growth?

Be on the lookout for a dry spot to hole up in to stay warm and dry. Consider stopping and making a debris hut if you don't 'find yourself' by mid-late afternoon.

A good firekit, a sylnylon tarp and a stainless/titanium cup and this whole scenario would have a new meaning.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:56 PM   #5
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you've been traveling for 5 hours. You were tracking, so lets assume you took no significant breaks. you are most likely 8 - 12 miles from your original position. You don't mention the time you started out so lets say 8AM. It is now 1PM. Late November, you have 3 - 3.5 hours of day light. Look around. Can you spot some high ground or anything that might give you something to triangulate from? Yes? - shoot a triangle with both compasses. Draw a 15 mile circle from your original location and plot both points. which makes more sense based on your route and the topography? You should have an idea of about where you are. Is there a landmark near enough to you that will assist you (stream, lake etc?) that you can reach before dark? Not really? OK, you've gone from hunter to camper.

Make your shelter. A simple a-frame big enough for 1.5 people. If you're still in the hardwoods, you will have lots of dead leaves for insulation. put a bunch in the shelter, outside on the sides as high as you can get them and in the doorway. Cover the whole thing with pine boughs or whatever you can to get it as waterproof as possible. Can you make and use a bow or other field ifre starter? no? put more leaves in the shelter. You're not sweating yet are you? Good. As soon as your shelter is built start on your fire. Remember, you have six rounds so you can use the powder if you need it. Make sure to save three at least. No luck with the fire? Crawl in the shelter on top of some of the leaves and cover yourself with the rest. Did I metion these leaves are dry leaves? No, well they are. You'll be a little chilly overnight, but you should be alright. Eat 2/3 of a granola bar. The digestion will warm you up a little. If you get very cold, leave the shelter and do some jumping jacks to create a little warmth.

Morning sunshine. Chilly ain't it. Now you can try your leaves and needles and/or retrace your steps etc based on your triangulation. With only 3.5 hours to cover what took you 5 hours to do originally and not being equipt to find your way in the dark, your time spent in preparation to spend the night was your first priority.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:06 PM   #6
sp_nyp
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Quote:
Have your compasses matched all day long or haven't you checked?
I haven't checked.

Quote:
You should have a general idea of where you are based on your estimated time afield and general direction of travel.
The tracks I followed were generally meandering through non-distinct terrain. Gradual inclines/declines; No streams, lakes, ponds. The occasional thicket of pines. I had thought I knew which way was which until my compass both pointed in directions other than what I thought were north.

Quote:
Did you leave any kind of itinerary
I was out alone and in my haste to get out in the woods I neglected to do so.

Quote:
And have you roamed completely outside the area of your quad?
While I can't be 100% certain, I don't believe I could have.

Quote:
Have you tried moving and seeing if your compasses 'correct" you might be near some iron deposits.
I did try walking about 50-100 yds with the compasses in each hand and they both continue pointing in their different directions.

----------------
Both compasses are in non-metallic housings.

The leaf and wool trick is interesting. As basic and common sensible as that seems, I can honestly say, I would not have thought of that.

----------------

I missed Robo's entry

Quote:
...Not really? OK, you've gone from hunter to camper.
Ha, I like that one.

I would address more, but I am headed out.

Last edited by sp_nyp; 05-22-2008 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by sp_nyp View Post
I pull out my compass and check its bearing. I pull out my other compass just to confirm and I get a totally different reading. Both compasses are typically 100% percent reliable, but obviously at least one is not correct, if not both???
There is no reasonable physical mechanism for two compasses in the same location (sufficiently separated from one another so they do not interfere) to be pointing other than parallel or anti-parallel to each other. That is, either they both point to local north, or one has reversed polarity where one points north and the other south, or both have reversed polarity and both point south (with the north-seeking end of the needle). If that is not the case, then you must be holding a magnetic material next to one of them but not the other.

One time I was teaching a student how to take bearings with her compass. She was holding it properly level, not near any metal jewelry or anything else that would throw it off, and appeared to be doing everything else right. But she kept reading 30 or more degrees off from what I knew was the right bearing. This could not be. Finally after several tries I took the compass and got the correct bearing. After I gave it back to her I noticed that she wadded up the lanyard in her hand under the compass. That shouldn't matter, except that she had for some reason installed a steel split ring on the lanyard, which of course in her hand under the compass threw the reading off.

Did you spend any time at home doing map study before you left? You should have a pretty good idea in your head what the general shape and layout of the terrain is like. Highly desirable information in case you lost the quad.

At least in this part of the world there are several ways to determine rough cardinal directions without use of a compass or clear sky. In most regions of the Adirondacks, certainly in the SW sector, the general run of ridges and valleys is NE/SW. It would be rare to see the general lay of the land go opposite this for very far. Look at areas along the ridges exposed to the wind. Almost always, especially if there are pine trees, the telltale prevailing wind from the SW has sculpted the tree branches to lean over toward the NE. Now you have a natural compass to compare to determine which one of your magnetic compasses is correct, which one is 180 degress reversed.

Another way, though now degrading now with time, is if you are in a area where the 1995 blowdown struck (almost everywhere in the western half of the Adirondacks). The wind came from the NW, causing the majority of trees to fall from that direction. Those trees all came down at the same time in a great mass, and will appear similar in state of decompositon.

By the way, did you note wind direction earlier in the day? Did it shift around as clouds thickened? In your planning study before you left did you check the weather forecast, was there a front approaching, or a low pressure system? Do you know how wind predictably shifts when these weather systems approach?

You say the light coating of snow was melting. Chances are there will be more snow remaining on the north side of hills than there is on the south, where the ground may be warmer and the snow exposed to the southern sun whenever it was out.

These are all clues that add up to finding direction and assisting navigation. Think hard enough and you may come up with others. Its about observation, before the trip, during the trip, and after you notice you have a problem. Any single clue may or may not instill a lot of confidence, but putting one clue on top of another may give you a fairly accurate picture of where your are and direction you need to travel. Think - Observe!
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Last edited by Wldrns; 05-22-2008 at 07:26 PM..
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp_nyp View Post
I haven't checked.



The tracks I followed were generally meandering through non-distinct terrain. Gradual inclines/declines; No streams, lakes, ponds. The occasional thicket of pines. I had thought I knew which way was which until my compass both pointed in directions other than what I thought were north.



I was out alone and in my haste to get out in the woods I neglected to do so.



While I can't be 100% certain, I don't believe I could have.



I did try walking about 50-100 yds with the compasses in each hand and they both continue pointing in their different directions.

----------------
Both compasses are in non-metallic housings.

The leaf and wool trick is interesting. As basic and common sensible as that seems, I can honestly say, I would not have thought of that.

----------------

I missed Robo's entry



Ha, I like that one.

I would address more, but I am headed out.

Only positive thing here is that you may still be within the quad. Now since you're carrying it, lets hope you know how to read it, many people don't. Look aroud you for drainages or anything else, if you can find two or three things, you might be able to compare them with the map and find your position.

At this point, since no one is coming for me for a good while or knows where I am for that matter, I'm on my own and in my estimation, it's all on me.

I would try backtracking for a while in the last direction i came from, stopping often and comparing the topography around me with the map, stopping every hundred feet or so to compare. If there is any recognizable landmark, mountain, lake, etc on the quad in that direction I would try for it. It's november so depending on where you are and if there are hardwoods around, you may have enough of a view to spot a couple of mountains, and compare them to the map. If you can and get your map orientated to them, you should then know which compass is right.

You have an analog wristwatch. If you do get a little sun you can get an approximation within 14 degrees of direction of travel. The closer to noon and the further north you are from the equator, the better the accuracy. regardless, you should be able to at least know your direction of travel between 2 of the primary directions, which is better off then you are at the moment.

You have a knife and rope. So you can make a firebow and if you pry one of the shells open you have powder to prime and ignite the tinder. You can do the same if you can make a spark. This will serve you for warmth if needed but you can also use wet debris to creat smoke and draw attention to yourself if necessary.

As someone else said, if you need to spend the night, you should be able to make a debris shelter.

So all in all, you're not really in bad shape if you keep your wits about you, be patient and use your head.

Hawk
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:25 PM   #9
John H Swanson
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I don't care for the idea of smashing compasses or making natural compasses. too time consuming.

In general when I have two compasses one is used and one is a back-up. If this is thue I would use the compass that you were using and ignore the other one. I would check it to be sure it moved when you brought metal next to it. I would also check to make sure the needle turned freely and pointed always in the same direction when the compass is rotated.

Then I would go back on the back asmith of the bearings you observed when you were walking in.
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Old 05-22-2008, 09:00 PM   #10
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Didn't the fellow who died out near Indian Lake in the plains a few years ago cut himself while trying to pry open a bullet??...I thought I read that the cut and the subsequent clotting was what eventually cuaused his death.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:46 PM   #11
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...So all in all, you're not really in bad shape if you keep your wits about you, be patient and use your head.

Hawk
I think that pretty much says it all. I think the people that get into real trouble are the ones that panic and/or don't apply much common/rational sense to their situation.

I remember being told of a hunter that found himself lost in an area near our camp. Apparently he had panicked to such a degree that when they did find him, he was wearing only his undergarments. He had ditched his rifle, gear and outer clothing in his mad dash for civilization. Based upon locations of some of his gear that was recovered, they figured he must have crossed a paved road, at least twice - rt 8 I believe, although I can't swear to that.

I will comment more on some of these posts when I get back. I am getting ready to head north; 4-day weekend at camp, woo hoo!!!
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:53 PM   #12
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I meant to post this earlier, I thought it was cute.

I saw it with the quote, when you find yourself lost.... "Find the nearest tree and
STAY PUT!"

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Old 05-23-2008, 08:05 AM   #13
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Here's an article I wrote for the local hiking newsletter.

It might not address your predicament, but it is on topic:
Attached Files
File Type: doc What's in your pack - v4.doc (32.0 KB, 24 views)
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:04 PM   #14
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Something I remembered from a long time ago,[ I saw this was briefly touched on above], looked it up and here it is;


*How to use your Anolog Watch as a Compass?

To use your watch as a compass, one must think in terms of the ordinary clock face. That is, a round clock with numbers 1 through 12.

When you need a rough compass, simply point the hour hand (or the part of your watch where that hour would be if it wasn‚t digital) at the sun.

Half way between that point and the 12:00 point on your watch points to the south. For example, if it is 8:00, point the 8 at the sun and south would be at the 10:00 position.

This will work, even if it is a cloudy day and you are not sure where the sun is. To find where the sun is, simply hold a pencil or stick upright over a light piece of paper or a lighter part of the ground or a light rock. Even on a cloudy day the stick or pencil will cast some kind of shadow.

As in using any compass, you'll need to keep rechecking which way is south. If you want to go east, simply go at a 90 degree angle to the right of south. North is opposite from south. West is 90 degrees to the left of south.
*Use this to get your best guess as to the good compass!


I'm wondering, upon heading in, when you checked your compass to find you were heading north, did that correspond to the map which I assume you looked at before hand ! If so,that would be your good compass, is it a different one than the other, shape and make wise, and would you remember which one you were using? What direction did the road you came in on run, is it on the map, I would imagine it is. I would compass point that instead of my truck due to it being a larger target if its direction allows!

MY QUESTIONS

1) Did you check your compass against your map before heading in?

2) Are both compasses exactly alike?

3) What time is it now?

4) What was the direction of the road you drove in on, [ ex; north to south, east to west], and are there other roads/trails nearby and what is their direction?

5) Can you hear any truck traffic in the distance ? If so, in which direction?

6) Were there any landmarks,[ lakes rivers, etc], on the map in your general vacinity? If so, in what direction in relation to your truck?

7) Are you sure there was no Asbach Uralt Brandy in your belongings?

Last edited by DRIFTER; 05-25-2008 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 05-24-2008, 02:28 PM   #15
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All your answers are ...

right here.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:54 PM   #16
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...........Alright, since it looks like rain, it's November and nobody is going to miss me, I'm going to set up a camp so I don't get wet. Wet and freezing would be a very bad situation and should be avoided at all cost, cold and dry, although not fun, would be preferable. Next, I would gather wood and some dry tinder and put as much wood as possible out of the weather in my lean-to that I have made in the most protected area I can find. I would next attempt a bow and drill fire, the bullet thing would be very difficult and the only thing that would produce a spark is the cap in the shell casing, , iffy at best to start a fire IMO and If you were otherwise capable of producing sparks, that would be all you would need,[ possible last resort though]. If and when a fire is started, I would build a reflector behind it to direct the heat. Hopefully by now, I have stopped pooping my pants from the prospect of being lost. Next, I would use the available light to try to orient myself on directions , since I'm assuming I checked my compass against the map on my way in,[ north and easterly], I would guess that it would be the correct compass as long as I have checked that I am not standing over iron ore,[ happened to me once], and it is not in close proximity to anything metal. I'll also assume I did not cut the road I came in on or any other road or trail and then try to coordinate that with my map along with any mountains I can see and hope the morning light would help,[ I liked the stick and light paper idea above, I didn't know that before]. If I found that the road I came in on headed let's say in a general east to west direction,[ adjust if different], on my map and I did not cross it in my travels, I would set a course due south to intersect it,[ again, a nice large target] and would mark a trail from my camp on both sides of trees always checking my back trail keeping my last mark in sight with the new. For one this would allow rescuers to pick up my trail if they cross it and I could also find my way back to a shelter that I have stored dry wood should I need it! I would also always keep an ear out for 18 wheelers or other sounds of civilization! This should bring me out, if it doesn't I would think my compass did reverse polarity and would reverse my route now keeping a sharp eye for anything edible and most importantly water.....



...........I'd really like to hear more idea's on this! One little trick that you didn't know before could get you out of a very bad situation someday......

Last edited by DRIFTER; 05-28-2008 at 01:17 PM..
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:48 PM   #17
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..........I just had someone tell me how to start a fire using a bullet and gun, I'm still skeptical though! Take the lead out of the casing keeping the powder in place. Stuff the opening with tissue or cloth tightly, load up, and shoot at a slight angle at the ground, if you can find the paper, it should be burning I'm told.......Don't try this at home!



When you fire a black powder gun there is a cloth patch that sits above the powder surrounding the projectile, this exits the barrel after the powder is ignited and does not come out burning.....I'm still skeptical!

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Old 05-31-2008, 09:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by sp_nyp View Post
I leave wearing a medium-weight fleece jacket over a PolarTec long sleeve top and a wool shirt. I also have on boots, leather w/ gortex, PolarTec leggings with wool pants over them. A pair of thin gloves. Also, a baseball style cap.

I am carrying with me:
- a rifle w/ 6 rounds of ammuntion
- two compasses
- 1 quadrangle map
- a 20oz bottle of water
- two fruit/granola bars
- a pen
- various lengths/sizes rope
- winter hat & gloves
- rubber gloves
- 4" lockblade knife
- multi-tool
- small pair of binocs
- the junk in my wallet (assorted $$, receipts & cards)
- regular analog wristwatch

Let's say I had forgotten to pack a match container or a zippo.

I am lost.

Let me know if you need any further details.
Just curious to hear the rest of your story.
What were some of the right decisions you made that might have helped you get out ok?
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:31 PM   #19
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Just curious to hear the rest of your story.
What were some of the right decisions you made that might have helped you get out ok?

Your supposed to fill in the blanks to finish the rest of the story as to how you would get yourself out under those given circumstances......What would be your right decisions?

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Old 06-01-2008, 12:54 PM   #20
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Your supposed to fill in the blanks to finish the rest of the story as to how you would get yourself out under those given circumstances......What would be your right decisions?
I guess it would depend on a number of different circumstances.

I think first I would stop and take a break. Maybe eat one of the fruit bars. Maybe get a small fire going to help my moral.
Pull out the map and plan my next move. Wheather that's to stay put, or try heading in a logical direction.

I guess it's tough to say what I'd do until I was put in that situation.
I've been confused on my exact location while bushwhacking many times before, but thankfully I've never been seriously lost.

Knock, knock, knock!!!
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