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Old 01-01-2016, 07:28 AM   #1
adk-46r
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Road salt Adirondack museum program

http://www.adkmuseum.org/exhibits_an...detail/?id=557
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:45 AM   #2
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Mewonders if it is too costly to admix lime to the road salt for a great distribution system. At least for the most acidified drainages?
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:43 AM   #3
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New program this winter in Lake George to monitor salt use

http://www.lakegeorge.com/whatsnew/2...alt-usage.html



Technology Decreasing Road Salt Usage In Lake George

By Jessica Morrissey on December 18, 2015 9:45 AM

It's not exactly the winter wonderland we're typically used to during December in Upstate New York, but when the nasty weather hits, Lake George will be prepared!

It's widely known that road salt poses a major threat to the health and stability of the lake, so surrounding towns have armed themselves with new technologies that can clear snow and ice without having an extraordinarily negative impact on the watershed.

Back in October, we wrote about "live edge" plows that the Village of Lake George and Town of Hague will be trying out this winter. Because the plows use spring-loaded plates and can more efficiently adjust to unevenness in the road, they can reduce road salt usage by as much as 40%!

The Town of Lake George is trying out a new technology of its own this winter: the Dickey-john Control Point System. Two of the town's three primary plows have been outfitted with these black boxes that were purchased by the Lake George Association and Warren County Soil & Water Conservation District. The systems allow drivers to have control over exactly how much salt is dispensed from the truck and the rate at which it is dispensed.

Additionally, the town's plows have new temperature sensors that can determine the temperature of roadways (which are generally higher than air temperatures) and prevent over-application of salt.

Who knows when snow will finally start falling, but when it does, these new technologies will help ensure that both drivers and the lake stay as safe as possible.
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Old 01-02-2016, 03:40 PM   #4
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Decades ago, the state of NY instituted a "clear road" philosophy, accommodating increased travel in the winter.
Untold tons of rock salt and other ice melting agents flow in to roadside streams and ultimately into our lakes and rivers. Not to mention the contamination of water wells.
The "live edge" wear plates on snowplows are nothing new. The spring loaded plates reduce wear on the main body of the plow.
We want to travel in the winter and demand safety.
At the expense of the environment.
I still say that the policy of "plow and sand" is best. No salt.
Jim
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Old 01-02-2016, 05:40 PM   #5
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Gee when I lived in the Adirondacks in 63-67 there was no plowing down to bare road. Once it snowed most of the snow was plowed, but hardpack remained until May...

Needless to say things changed.
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Old 01-02-2016, 06:21 PM   #6
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Yes, things have changed.
My dad grew up on Tug Hill many years ago. They didn't even plow in the early days, they rolled the snow flat with large wooden rollers pulled by horses or tractor. It made a good driveable hard track until spring melt, when it became a long lasting thick slushy mess covering the road. Dad talked of driving in the field next to the road until the ice road melted. There's an antique roller on display at the Adirondack Museum.

Then they got plows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MJv6b0q6WI

I can remember much later as a kid when the big Oshkosh plows would "buck" the drifts as seen in the video, on the road by my home. And that was Lowville, not even on Tug Hill.

I prefer a nice hardpack of snow with sand on top for driving. Better than a constant spray of salty water from passing cars.

I once lived in Ohio for 3 years when in the military. I hated winter there. They didn't plow much, but they did have salt. On the rare occasion when we received several inches of snow, they just spread salt on it instead of plowing. Awful. Then it all melted a few days later. yuk.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:42 AM   #7
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Note the program of opening up the tree cover on road sides, allowing the sun to do its work much more efficiently then any plow or salt.... but especially by a factor in unison. Obviously the impact of the loss of these trees deemed less then the increase of salt and sand their shade and wind cover provided. Not to mention at least a chance at spotting suicidal deer...

However, I am all for leaving the rest of them [trees] anywhere else just as they are- the camels nose in the tent scenario I have seen everywhere, next thing you know the entire camel is in the tent.. (An Arab metaphor that applies everywhere- but especially in the Adirondacks.)
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Hard Scrabble View Post
Decades ago, the state of NY instituted a "clear road" philosophy, accommodating increased travel in the winter.
My understanding is that it coincided with the 1980 Olympics.

Not all roads in the Adirondacks get road salt, only the major biways that serve as corridors connecting municipalities. Within towns, most of the side roads get plowed and sanded only, The same is true of many smaller roads outside of the towns that don't get as much use. In Saranac Lake, they have a big vacuum truck that drives around in the spring, vacuuming up all the sand to be re-used the next year.

Salt is still a major issue, though. The shoulder of Route 73 along Cascade Lakes used to be lined with hundreds of pretty birch trees until the road salt killed them all off. Some of the stumps can still be seen today.

I know Lake Placid has also had issues with road salt getting into the Chub River. All of the snow that gets removed from parking lots and the streets is dumped along the river near Old Military Road, and inevitably it contains a fair amount of salt, which ends up in the river as the snow melts.
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:49 PM   #9
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All town and county roads are under the state mandate to plow and salt, sometimes only to salt mixed with sand.
I know this to be true because my friend and neighbor was the highway superintendent of highways in the town of Edinburg, Saratoga County.
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:37 PM   #10
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All town and county roads are under the state mandate to plow and salt, sometimes only to salt mixed with sand.
I know this to be true because my friend and neighbor was the highway superintendent of highways in the town of Edinburg, Saratoga County.
Jim
It must vary between towns/counties then. The roads that I lived on from 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and in 2014 in Saranac Lake definitely never got salt.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:36 PM   #11
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Has anybody seen the 'sludge' trucks? (at least thats what I was told it was called). Its a tanker truck that drives around and sprays thin lines of a de-icing solution directly on the pavement before a storm. Is this aimed at lowering salt over distribution?
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skillzman1 View Post
Has anybody seen the 'sludge' trucks? (at least thats what I was told it was called). Its a tanker truck that drives around and sprays thin lines of a de-icing solution directly on the pavement before a storm. Is this aimed at lowering salt over distribution?
Pre-treatment varies
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highw...owremoval.aspx

It's more effective than post snow salt treatment.

Here in Maine on our back roads we mostly use sand on the hills. Otherwise nothing. The snow is not often sloppy and slidey. We have one state highway. The rest of the roads are town owned or private dirt. Our town cannot afford other than sand and limited other materials at some intersections on hills.

I doubt you see rock salt applied in the Adirondacks during a storm as the temperature is too low. But I am here and do not know for sure.
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Old 01-15-2016, 03:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by skillzman1 View Post
Has anybody seen the 'sludge' trucks? (at least thats what I was told it was called). Its a tanker truck that drives around and sprays thin lines of a de-icing solution directly on the pavement before a storm. Is this aimed at lowering salt over distribution?
skillzman,
I've only seen that type truck in the southern interstate highways.
The trucks in the Adk's use a sand/salt mix.
Jim
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Old 01-15-2016, 03:54 PM   #14
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It must vary between towns/counties then. The roads that I lived on from 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and in 2014 in Saranac Lake definitely never got salt.
"D"
Are you telling me that Rte 30, Rte 3, Rte 73 never had salt applied???
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
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"D"
Are you telling me that Rte 30, Rte 3, Rte 73 never had salt applied???
Jim
No. I lived on town roads in and near the Village of Saranac Lake. They definitely never got salt in the winter.

BTW, the roads you listed are neither town nor county roads- they are state highways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_30

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_73
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:53 AM   #16
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Straight salt on Route 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard Scrabble View Post
skillzman,
I've only seen that type truck in the southern interstate highways.
The trucks in the Adk's use a sand/salt mix.
Jim
I live in Franklin County, and I know for a fact that the State uses straight salt on Route 3. They haven't used sand in the mix for years. I was told the state changed because it cost too much in the spring to sweep the sand up on the sides of the roads.

I live on Goldsmith Road (dirt road) in Sugarbush and they have salted and sanded this road as long as I can remember..... until this year. Now, they are using a sand/gravel mix.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:58 PM   #17
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Gal,
Glad to have you, and welcome your comments
Jim.
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