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Old 04-23-2010, 11:20 AM   #41
Alpine1
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Indian river, Horn Lake, Middle Branch Lake

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Don't forget Fish Pond, Grass Pond, Polliwog Pond, Horseshoe Pond, Trout Pond, Long Pond, Follensby Pond, Gull Pond, Mill Brook, Beaver Pond, Spectacle Pond, Goose Pond, Deer Pond, South Lake, North Lake, West Lake, East Lake, Otter Lake, Spruce Lake, Balsam Lake, Tamarack Lake, Pine Lake, First Pond, Second Pond, Third Pond...
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:05 PM   #42
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Perhaps those annoyed with the boats can organize a work day to remove ones that are full of holes and clearly of no use, which qualify in everyone's mind as garbage. The consensus here seems to be that those need to go.

It could be one of those very, very rare circumstances where a thread produces a useful and meaningful result!
Sure, why not? You go ahead and organize it, then let us know the timing, etc.
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:37 PM   #43
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It could be one of those very, very rare circumstances where a thread produces a useful and meaningful result!
Every thread on the forum yields me a useful and meaningful reason to goof off.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:11 PM   #44
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About 10 years ago I was at one of my favorite ice out ponds....I hauled my canoe in becasue I am a firm believer of carry it in, carry it out...no if, ands or buts. Anyhow, I stopped for lunch on the shore, and watched two guys walk down the trail, haul a boat out of the woods, put a motor on it and off they went fishing. That is when I started counting the boats scattered all around the lake...some were sunk, many others were hidden...but most of them were blatently out there in the open....and the more I looked, the more I got disgusted. I wondered if the guys in the motorized canoe actually registed their craft??? I know I have my canoe registered for electric motor use....I also wondered if I wanted to pick one of these abandoned canoes and haul it out would I be stealing? So, I went home and asked all these questions in a letter to DEC....and reminded them that in their by-laws its illegal for anyone to store property on state land. They responded with something like "we know that is a problem at this lake and we will try to curb the abuse. The next year DEC had a notice at the trail head, stating that if you put a motor on any craft it must be registered. I thought wow...at least they are trying. So I hiked in for my annual fishing trip and noticed many of the canoes had register stickers on them...so I took pictures of the stickers and again wrote DEC a letter and stated that yes, boats are registered....BUT they are still storeing them at the lake, and look here...you can even look up who they are by the registration number. Needless to say, it took about 8 years....but Fawn Lake is now clean of all the garbage boats...and each year, when I go there to fish in the spring, I feel I had something to do with it....and it makes me proud to protect the wilderness I live in as an Adirondack resident. I know my "blowing the whistle" on this blatent abuse of state owned lands might not be popular with folks, but the lake is a lot better looking without all the garbage boats laying around...it was really out of hand! If it was just 1 boat hidden in the woods then I probably would not have made the big fuss....but I counted 18 boats on one of my trips, not including the ones sunk at the bottom of the lake.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:33 PM   #45
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How exactly would we haul the boats off the bottom? if we did want to clean up a pond/lake?

Why are there so many boats with holes in them? I've never ruined any of my boats over the years to this extent. Is it malicious?
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:34 PM   #46
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I'm more concerned with people who leave trash in their firepits or discard litter on the trail then i am about stashed boats. the caveat however is that if a boat is stashed on public land, then it should be for public use and not chained to a tree.

If I were to come across a boat chained to a tree on public land, my reaction would to bring in bolt cutters my next trek in and free the boat so it will be "forever wild".

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Old 04-23-2010, 10:46 PM   #47
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I saw something today that made me stop and think,an 80+ year old man enjoying a ride in a stashed canoe.And he walked about 5 miles to get to it.I would sure hate to see him denied that pleasure.
A dear old family friend had paddled the 90-miler several years ago. A couple of years ago, after his 80th birthday, he decided he wanted to paddle the race once again, but only in a solo boat. Brian (the race director) advised against it, but if I closely accompanied my friend in another boat, it would be ok to enter the event. The race start was delayed over a half hour due to fog. We missed making the preset mandatory cut-off time at Raquette Lake by 9 minutes, and therefore we were not allowed to continue across the lake. I did not wish for the rules to be bent, and neither did he. It was time to admit limitations in ability. You can't do everything forever, biology will always win at some point.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:13 AM   #48
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I saw something today that made me stop and think,an 80+ year old man enjoying a ride in a stashed canoe.And he walked about 5 miles to get to it.I would sure hate to see him denied that pleasure.
I've witnessed a similar scenario. A mid-80's man, who had grown up at the base of Berlin Mtn and hunted the mountain all his life, and with age had to start using a 4 wheeler to get up there, eventually could no longer go because the development of the Taconic Crest as a hiking trail put motorized vehicles off limits.

I felt sympathy for this man, I voiced to him my anger over the unfairness of the new regulations. He said "don't worry about it, things change". He had already moved on, and encouraged me to do the same. So I did.

That man was my dad.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:27 AM   #49
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Sure, why not? You go ahead and organize it, then let us know the timing, etc.
I wasn't volunteering to be the organizer! The issue isn't one that I particularly care about - just suggesting that those that do can do something about it!
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:36 AM   #50
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Let me know when you go to Deer pond near Tupper Lake. I will let the locals know when you will be there.
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:47 PM   #51
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The older I get, the more I can sense and feel my abilities slipping away. The desire to do things and go back into deep woods areas is not diminishing however. As I age, I sympathize more and more with those who are unable to access the deep woods areas because of restrictions and the more I question the logic of maintaining large land areas that limit the public's use. Surely a certain amount of these areas is warranted, but the 64 million dollar question is, how much of it should there be? Where should the line be drawn?
I don't ever plan on giving up my backwoods forays and should I die in the attempt, well, what better way to go? We only go through this life once, and I'm not giving up until I draw my last breath. I hunt and fish alone quite a bit and my wife worries about it but understands how I feel. As for the 80 year old that wanted to enter the 90 miler, how dare someone have the audacity to tell him he can't. If he dies in the attempt, c'est le vie. I take my hat off to him.
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:03 PM   #52
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I think they just need to be hidden better.......actually, don't really feel strongly either way...lucky enough to be a Hornbeck owner and I enjoy the workout I get in carrying in and out...but that's just me....
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:49 AM   #53
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Rather than change the way things have been in the Adirondacks for generations; maybe one should try the Catskills. You'll find lots of rules and Rangers for your comfort. We are losing our property to high yuppie house prices now you want to take our ponds too.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:17 AM   #54
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Rather than change the way things have been in the Adirondacks for generations; maybe one should try the Catskills. You'll find lots of rules and Rangers for your comfort.
How are the rules concerning state land use in the Catskills any different than those in the Adirondacks?
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:27 AM   #55
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now you want to take our ponds too.
Your ponds? Last time I checked they were "Our ponds". It's not your personal playground just because you live nearby, anymore than it is anyone elses.

Also, I'm pretty sure the ponds will still be pretty much where you last saw them. They're unlikely to be relocated downstate any time soon.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:55 AM   #56
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Your ponds? Last time I checked they were "Our ponds". It's not your personal playground just because you live nearby, anymore than it is anyone elses.
It's kind of like the whole "representation based on population" vs. "representation based on number of states" deal we see in our government...

Who should have the most say in how our land is managed? Whose needs are most important? Those who visit a destination the most often, live nearby, and are undoubtedly going to be most influenced based on management decision, or those who visit that destination no more than a few times a year, and live far away?

It's easy to understand why Adirondack and Catskill locals would feel frustration towards the rest of New York State when it comes to opinions towards how state land should be managed. Place attachment is strongest among those people who visit a particular destination the most often, and those people certainly are going to have the strongest feelings concerning how that destination ought to be managed.

That being said, even those New York State residents who never visit Forest Preserve Land still ought to be given a say in how state lands are managed. Studies have shown that city dwellers who hardly ever leave places like New York City, still find value in wilderness aesthetics. The quality of their life is improved by knowing that as a society, we have set aside areas for wilderness preservation and natural resources conservation. In a way, state lands are still "used" by people who never set foot on them. The New York City watershed is another excellent example of this, many New York City residents might never visit the Catskills, but they still depend on them for a clean drinking supply.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:32 PM   #57
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Rather than change the way things have been in the Adirondacks for generations; maybe one should try the Catskills. You'll find lots of rules and Rangers for your comfort. We are losing our property to high yuppie house prices now you want to take our ponds too.
I was wondering when this kind of response would pop up, surprised it took so long. I've been following a 'stashed boat' thread on another forum that was full of this 'taking away our heritage' stuff. As someone who has not only used stashed boats and also stashed a couple myself over the years (I've since removed them) I can somewhat sympathize with the sentiment. On the other hand, given the number of times I've almost gone down with the leaky ship or seen the leaky ship in a nasty pile on the shore, maybe not.

Maybe its just me but things seem to have changed over the past couple years. I've seen and heard of boats being outright stolen. People mess with boats (shooting, flipping so they fill with snow/rain, etc). More and more boats seem to be showing up, even in easy to access ponds. It really has gotten out of control. Does a pond less than 1 mile from a trailhead need 6 boats? I know one that apparently does.

I don't know what the right answer is but in this hyper polarized world some compromise might be in order. Like maybe require removal of the boats after the season. If we're trying to eliminate the litter of the abandoned stashed boat this should work for both sides no?
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:11 PM   #58
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I don't know what the right answer is but in this hyper polarized world some compromise might be in order. Like maybe require removal of the boats after the season. If we're trying to eliminate the litter of the abandoned stashed boat this should work for both sides no?
This is very similar to the approach used for hunters' tree stands, etc. After the season ends the stands have to be removed or they are, um, fair game. Seems reasonable to me. But to quote a wise man, I could be wrong.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:32 PM   #59
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...I don't know what the right answer is but in this hyper polarized world some compromise might be in order. Like maybe require removal of the boats after the season. If we're trying to eliminate the litter of the abandoned stashed boat this should work for both sides no?
[sarcasm switch enabled]
Now you are just talking nonsense... if there is one thing our acting government has shown us - there is no middle ground to accommodate both sides; there is no compromise. Could you even imagine such a hellish concept.
[sarcasm switch disabled]

Sounds reasonable to me.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:23 PM   #60
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Maybe someone should build a marina in one of these places....that way the boats won't look so trashy flipped over and chained to a tree. Maybe a marina might bring more tourists- a restaurant, motel,.... it could be a real novelty that could lead to some great economic development......
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