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Old 04-02-2017, 09:09 PM   #61
stripperguy
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Zach,
Funny you should be asking about the gunnels...
I just today wetted out one gunnel, it seemed to go much easier than when I did the red Kite. Honestly, I was sort of avoiding it, I had time in the evenings this past week.
I had wrapped the gunnel with 4" wide bias woven carbon fiber tape from Soller, I think it's the 13.5 oz stuff. Fairly thick, but very compliant. I used a total of 12 oz of resin, in two batches. Almost all of the wet out was with a 3" roller, except for the very ends, where space is at a premium. I wrapped the carbon as far around the second side as possible. Tomorrow, I'll trim the stray fibers and wrap the other gunnel.
Oh, and I weighed the hull just before I added the carbon, so it's shell plus foam gunnels, 23.5 lbs and counting.

As far as using the red Kite if I must, that's always an option. Even though our gang plans these trips (Apr 28 or so, Fish Pond) a couple months in advance, I never know until the final week a definite head count. It seems we always have a drop out or two, so I may not need to paddle solo. I'll easily have the carbon copy ready for the forum paddle meet at Rollins in May.

The carbon fiber apparently is uncomfortable in front of the camera, I can't seem to get a good photo, especially when the resin is still wet.
Here's how it looks as of tonight:






In this last photo, you can see how nicely the carbon conformed to the foam and the hull. No problems to get it to tuck in tightly.

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Old 04-03-2017, 02:04 PM   #62
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This morning, I cleaned up the first side overlap, and rolled out the carbon for the second side. Wet out mostly with a roller, same as the other side.
First side cured nicely, and is really tucked in well all along both inside and out.

Rolling out the 4" carbon tape



Smoothing/tucking the dry tape into place. I needed to wiggle the tape around to get as uniform of an overlap as possible.



Rolling on the resin was much easier once I grabbed a pair of dollar store reading glasses!!



Second side done, tonight (or tomorrow) I'll trim the stray fibers and possibly add a little more carbon at the gunnel stem overhang. And maybe a small piece where the two gunnels meet on the inside.
I've run out of carbon sleeving to make the thwarts, fortunately my S-I-L has a bunch laying around.

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Old 04-03-2017, 07:05 PM   #63
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Looking pretty cool Mike, thanks again for keeping us posted on the project!
I know that you mentioned that this is a "practice" build, and I hope you don't mind if I go ahead & request perhaps a little more video tutorial included during this, or the next build. More specifically...I'm thinking it might be helpful with some of those finer details, like the "wetting out" & "tucking" process. Just thinking out loud (so-to-speak). Keep up the great work!
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:06 PM   #64
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Looking pretty cool Mike, thanks again for keeping us posted on the project!
I know that you mentioned that this is a "practice" build, and I hope you don't mind if I go ahead & request perhaps a little more video tutorial included during this, or the next build. More specifically...I'm thinking it might be helpful with some of those finer details, like the "wetting out" & "tucking" process. Just thinking out loud (so-to-speak). Keep up the great work!
Justin,
I just finished wetting out the carbon/kevlar sleeving on the future thwarts.
I will be applying short sleeves to strengthen the thwart to gunnel joints. Other than that, I'm all done with wet outs on this build.
Unfortunately, I don't own a GoPro or such. I do have a smartphone that does videos, but I don't want to cover it in resin...my hands occasionally get pretty sticky (or the gloves do).

But, but, you're welcome to stop by to start your apprenticeship. I don't expect to live forever, so I gotta pass these skills to as many as possible!!

With that said, here is a quick look at tonight's efforts.

Future thwart, carbon/kevlar sleeve over 4 lb/cu ft Divinycell foam, dry



Future thwarts fully wetted out



Bottom of carbon fiber seat, with added foam rails for future attachment to seat pedestals



Close up of foam rail (to be glass reinforced) showing Cabosil thickened epoxy and fillets

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Old 04-04-2017, 04:31 PM   #65
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Thanks for the updates.
The carbon/kevlar sleeves add a very nice accent to the build.
Do you use an actual tractor seat for the seat mold?
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:16 PM   #66
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Thanks for the updates.
The carbon/kevlar sleeves add a very nice accent to the build.
Do you use an actual tractor seat for the seat mold?
The carbon seat was an almost gift from a fellow backyard builder in Iowa. He made a mold using a standard issue canoe seat and was practicing his technique. I sent him all of my carbon scraps and he produced the seat, nearly flawless, I might add.

I will eventually paint the hull inside and out, leaving all of the trim au natural.
Undecided on the color, but some sort of mild earth tone.

No photos tonight, but I added glass reinforcement to the seat rails and another layer of sleeving to all three thwarts.
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:56 PM   #67
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Added foam rails to the bottom of the Alan Gage carbon seat.
Added Cabosil thickened epoxy fillets on the foam/seat interfaces.
Used 6 oz glass to wrap and reinforce the foam seat rails.
Thwarts are done. Center thwart has 2 layers of carbon/kevlar sleeve over 5 lb/cu inch Divinycell.
Short thwarts have 1 layer of carbon/kevlar and 1 layer of borrowed from my S-I-L carbon over the same foam.
Epoxied and filleted in placed, but not before sliding a pair of short sleeves over the thwarts.
Wet out the short sleeves to reinforce the thwart/gunnel interface.

Still need to fabricate the seat pedestals.
I won't locate the pedestals until I test paddle the hull and find the right spot for the seat.
That might be Sunday or Monday, weather permitting.
Oh, and I weighed the hull, complete with thwarts and seat (but no seat pedestals)...27.5 lbs.

Until then, here is a photo history of all that I've described above.










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Old 04-10-2017, 08:30 PM   #68
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Today is the day! I Took the carbon copy Kite to the Mohawk River and gave it a test paddle to see where I should put the seat pedestals.
As it happens, we had a delivery this morning of a custom glass shower door. It was crated with some 2 by's and closed cell foam glued to the inside.
So I used the parts of the shipping crate to make a temporary seat pedestal. The foam sits against the hull, protecting it from the 2 by's and prevents the whole mess from sliding around.






And I was concerned that I might have put the center (almost center? central?) thwart in the wrong end. It's really hard to keep track of bow and stern, so I dragged out the red Kite for a side by side.





It was still hard to tell, so I grabbed a couple forms, and phew, I had it correct!
A while later, after MDB baked me some birthday peanut butter cookies, I loaded the carbon copy on the racks and drove 8 minutes to the Mohawk River, at Lock 7.
Fiddled around with the seat location while MDB watched to see if I was trimmed out or not.







I suppose I should be excited, but the carbon copy handles like, uhmmm, a carbon copy of the original! I guess it's doing what it should.
Satisfied that the seat placement will be OK, I brought the boat back home. Time to build up the seat pedestals and finish the portage thwart that I started last year.


Oh, and I finished the first foam/E-glass test patch. 2 full layers of 6 oz on each side of 1/8" H80 Divinycell foam. It weighs 1-1/2 times more than the carbon/E-glass test patch, but is incredibly stiff. Looking back on this thread, I see the shell gained 6 lbs when I added the foam stiffening and carbon overlay.
Almost the same, advantage still for the carbon. I plan to make a few more test panels with varying weights of glass and different number of layers.
I'll also model the various laminates in Inventor, using real engineering properties, so I can close the loop on these test panels.
I'm fairly sure that I can produce a better hull using foam and glass exclusively. We'll see...
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:31 PM   #69
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Good for you, it looks nice on the water and it looks like it's nice and level. I guess I'm just a sucker for wood, I really like the look of your strip canoes and while this one still looks good it doesn't grab me in the same way somehow. Will having the thwart that close in front of your seat be a difficulty if you want to stretch your legs out or do you not need to do that? It sounds like an interesting idea with the test panels but I don't understand much about that end of things. Thanks for posting the journal, I've enjoyed being able to follow along. Happy birthday, too.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:13 PM   #70
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Good for you, it looks nice on the water and it looks like it's nice and level. I guess I'm just a sucker for wood, I really like the look of your strip canoes and while this one still looks good it doesn't grab me in the same way somehow. Will having the thwart that close in front of your seat be a difficulty if you want to stretch your legs out or do you not need to do that? It sounds like an interesting idea with the test panels but I don't understand much about that end of things. Thanks for posting the journal, I've enjoyed being able to follow along. Happy birthday, too.
Zach
Zach,
I still like the cedar too, but losing all that weight is just too attractive for me.
Forward thwart is nearly the same location as the Red Kite, and that's plenty comfy for me. I still can and do stretch my legs, feet tuck right under that thwart. Remember, my inseam is 32 inches! Front edge of the seat, in its most forward position, is 20 inches (plus or minus a few) away from that thwart.
Thanks for the birthday wishes...
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