Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Adirondack History and Folklore
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-30-2011, 07:02 PM   #1
sd11856g
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 34
Indian dreams????

Hello all,
I just watched the movie The Black Robe. I am intrigued on info regarding To Indian dreams. Did all tribes believe so absolutely in dreams being real and must be followed? Did the entire tribe follow or share their individual dreams or did the chief only speak and lead with his dreams? Was this only related to death and nature or could they include prosperity and advancement? Where the adirondack tribes similar in their beliefs about their dreams?
Thanks, Scott
sd11856g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2011, 10:17 PM   #2
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,933
Are you talking about dreams or "visions"? There is a difference.

Also define what you mean about "Adirondack tribes". There were no set tribes in the Adirondack Mountains, the winters were too fierce. But both the Nations that formed the Iroguois Confederation (Mohawk, Oneida, Seneca, Cayuga, Onodaga and Tuscorora) as well as many of the Algonquin speaking nations (Abanake, Delaware, Mohegan, Huron, etc) shared the Adirondacks as a hunting ground. There were no Adirondack tribes.

Plains tribes believed in Visions which were experiencedon during ceremonies, Sundance, Hanblechia (Vision Quest), Inipi (Sweat lodge).
It was during a Sundance Ceremony that Sitting Bull saw the soldiers falling from the sky which assured him that the Lakota would be succesful against the Seventh Calvary prior to the Battle of the Greasy Grass, or as the Whites called it the Little Big horn. Visions were very much a part of Plains Indian life and those who had visions that gave them success were the ones that the warriors followed. One did not have to be a Chief. In fact, Crazy Horse was a warrior who had strong medicine and had many followers. Sitting Bull was not a chief, he was Wakan, a Holy Man.

I can't realy speak for the other tribes beyond the Lakota, Northern and Southern Cheyenne, Blackfoot and Crow. Those tribes I know for a fact relied heavily on Visions.

Hawk
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 09:05 AM   #3
Pumpkin QAAD
Whachu talking about
 
Pumpkin QAAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,324
Just think about it.

No tv, no radio no papers. Just nature and the stars. Visions would be extremely powerful and moving. Spirituality is much stronger without scientific explanation.
__________________
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they never shall sit in
Pumpkin QAAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 11:21 AM   #4
paddlewheel
**BANNED**
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 837
If my dreams indicate anything...I am truly nuts......

By the way, I watched Black Robe myself the other day..Had to laugh when Jesuit Jim was trying to take a dump from the war canoe...you'd a thought the Native Americans wouldn't have let him do that...wasn't very ecologicaly sound.....wonder if that was the original source of giardia...
paddlewheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 01:36 PM   #5
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlewheel View Post
If my dreams indicate anything...I am truly nuts......

By the way, I watched Black Robe myself the other day..Had to laugh when Jesuit Jim was trying to take a dump from the war canoe...you'd a thought the Native Americans wouldn't have let him do that...wasn't very ecologicaly sound.....wonder if that was the original source of giardia...
Don't you think that there was some "Artistic License" taken there?

I know a couple of Abanake people who were extra's in the movie. There were some things that gave them a good laugh, although in general it was pretty factual.

Hawk
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 03:50 PM   #6
paddlewheel
**BANNED**
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Don't you think that there was some "Artistic License" taken there?

I know a couple of Abanake people who were extra's in the movie. There were some things that gave them a good laugh, although in general it was pretty factual.

Hawk
Didn't mean that our Native folks didn't have a sense of humor...I read alot & I realize they were alot happier lot than the average European..

On the other hand ...it seems alot of them were attracted to the laxidasiel craziness of the Scotch- Irish...Guess that's where my attraction comes from

I just read a book about the relationship of Sam Houston & Tianna of the the ReaL People...(the Cherokee)....great, sad book...
paddlewheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 04:56 PM   #7
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlewheel View Post
Didn't mean that our Native folks didn't have a sense of humor...I read alot & I realize they were alot happier lot than the average European..
That is because for the most part we were content with the gifts that Creator had provided and were not driven to accumulate material things or gain power. Whatever excess we had was shared among the community and not hoarded by individuals so there was no reason to seek riches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlewheel View Post
On the other hand ...it seems alot of them were attracted to the laxidasiel craziness of the Scotch- Irish...Guess that's where my attraction comes from
I don't know if I would use the word "attracted". The Scotch were great traders and the commerce between the Natives and the Scotch and French traders was mutually beneficial.
For the most part those Euro-caucasians were perfectly content with trade and had no ambitions for land or conquest. It was the English who looked at all land as a resource that could return a profit and that's when the troubles began.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlewheel View Post
I just read a book about the relationship of Sam Houston & Tianna of the the ReaL People...(the Cherokee)....great, sad book...
I'm not familiar with that, what's the name of the book? I would be interested in reading it. If it's anything like the relationship of Kit Carson and the Dine (Navajo) then I would imagine that it ended badly. To this day the Dine have not forgiven Carson for leading the army into Canyon deChelly against them.

Hawk
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 05:03 PM   #8
paddlewheel
**BANNED**
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
That is because for the most part we were content with the gifts that Creator had provided and were not driven to accumulate material things or gain power. Whatever excess we had was shared among the community and not hoarded by individuals so there was no reason to seek riches.



I don't know if I would use the word "attracted". The Scotch were great traders and the commerce between the Natives and the Scotch and French traders was mutually beneficial.
For the most part those Euro-caucasians were perfectly content with trade and had no ambitions for land or conquest. It was the English who looked at all land as a resource that could return a profit and that's when the troubles began.



I'm not familiar with that, what's the name of the book? I would be interested in reading it. If it's anything like the relationship of Kit Carson and the Dine (Navajo) then I would imagine that it ended badly. To this day the Dine have not forgiven Carson for leading the army into Canyon deChelly against them.

Hawk
It's called "Walk in My Soul" by Lucia St. Clair Robson....

It's a great book ....she also does one of Oceola of the Seminoles....that one is "Light a distant Fire".....

Yeah ....ol' Kit sold his soul to the devil didn't he?...
paddlewheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 07:29 PM   #9
sd11856g
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 34
I have seen other Indian movies where they had "visions" during ceremonies and in the sweat lodge. In black robe they seemed to refer to them as "dreams" that came during sleep. In referring to adirondack tribes I just meant any tribes that spent time in the adirondaks. I would love to find out more about the seneca's. I live near the lake and frequent local finger lakes trails and state hunting grounds often. Thanks Redhawk, I always enjoy reading your posts.....I don't post often just a lurker....
Scott
sd11856g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 07:36 PM   #10
paddlewheel
**BANNED**
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 837
Watching that movie ...I couldn't help but to think it was filmed in the Adirondacks somewhere's..

There sure was a lot of history in dem there hills before all us crazy white boys made it a playground.....huh?
paddlewheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 07:42 PM   #11
WinterWarlock
One foot in front of the other
 
WinterWarlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,192
I just started reading "Blood on the Mohawk", about the early frontier wars in the Mohawk Valley....looks pretty interesting.

As far as dreams, I just finished "In the Wake of the Jomon" - PW, you'd probably like it; Hawk, too. The author kayaked from Japan to Alaska, following the Stone Age migration of the Jomon peoples 10,000 years ago. But along the way, he met and visited with many local Siberian families, including one shaman who had such visions and dreams. Pretty cool book...
__________________
ADK High Peaks Wiki

Enjoy Every Sandwich!
WinterWarlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 07:44 PM   #12
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlewheel View Post
Watching that movie ...I couldn't help but to think it was filmed in the Adirondacks somewhere's..
Nope, it was filmed at Lac Saint-Jean, Québec. Paddling bow position long distances in a voyageur canoe holds a special place in my heart.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 08:02 PM   #13
paddlewheel
**BANNED**
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
Nope, it was filmed at Lac Saint-Jean, Québec. Paddling bow position long distances in a voyageur canoe holds a special place in my heart.
Wow...I didn't think Quebec had mountains so similar to the eastern ADK's like that...The whole cinematography of that movie just reminded me so much of the Lake George- Pharoah Lake Region.....Thanks for the info....
paddlewheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 09:11 PM   #14
bdoon51
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12
Question Get It Right ....Sasquatch

Huron were not Algonquin speaking....spoke Iroquoian langauage as did Neutrals...however werre enemies of the Hauldanosee because they would join neither the League or Nation.

Almost all Indian grouping believed in the significance of dreams (not in the Freudian sense but more in the weather-forecasting sense)...Why shouldn't they? Don't you? You haven't had dreams that foretold the future? I have had enough to know it is a real phenomena. There are two trAINS OF THOUGHT ON THIS:

1. Our subconscious mind has enough accumulated data to fortell generally what is going to happen but our ego-driven, conscious minds are too distracted to put it together

2. That time really does not exist and in sleep we are most open to ingesting enrgies or spiritual feeback from the Great Spirit, God, Allah, Yaweh...whatever you call the eternal and infinite that we can never comprehend.


Sasquatch- does he or doesn't he? Live in the Adirondacks ? Why would a couple of Police Officers risk their reputations and jobs saying what they did?
I have spent far too little time in the Adirondacks...but a few evenings as I headed back to the lakeside camp where I was staying and the quiet and stillness were deafening I swear I felt something was paralleling me and watching me...utterly strange at first but then frightening . Also the second time I stayed in the Dacks, woke up at about 4 AM and went out into the night...it was so ethereal under a full moon, listening to the loons and other night sounds and then hearing this strange, really plantive-type cry or howl ( near Upper Saranac). First and only time I heard it but once was enough .



Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Are you talking about dreams or "visions"? There is a difference.

Also define what you mean about "Adirondack tribes". There were no set tribes in the Adirondack Mountains, the winters were too fierce. But both the Nations that formed the Iroguois Confederation (Mohawk, Oneida, Seneca, Cayuga, Onodaga and Tuscorora) as well as many of the Algonquin speaking nations (Abanake, Delaware, Mohegan, Huron, etc) shared the Adirondacks as a hunting ground. There were no Adirondack tribes.

Plains tribes believed in Visions which were experiencedon during ceremonies, Sundance, Hanblechia (Vision Quest), Inipi (Sweat lodge).
It was during a Sundance Ceremony that Sitting Bull saw the soldiers falling from the sky which assured him that the Lakota would be succesful against the Seventh Calvary prior to the Battle of the Greasy Grass, or as the Whites called it the Little Big horn. Visions were very much a part of Plains Indian life and those who had visions that gave them success were the ones that the warriors followed. One did not have to be a Chief. In fact, Crazy Horse was a warrior who had strong medicine and had many followers. Sitting Bull was not a chief, he was Wakan, a Holy Man.

I can't realy speak for the other tribes beyond the Lakota, Northern and Southern Cheyenne, Blackfoot and Crow. Those tribes I know for a fact relied heavily on Visions.

Hawk
bdoon51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2011, 02:00 PM   #15
sp_nyp
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 904
How did this thread jump to Sasquatch?
sp_nyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.