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Old 06-08-2010, 07:13 AM   #121
Hobbitling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxs View Post
It seems like failing blowout protectors is the norm.
I propose some new names, instead of the inaccurate "blowout preventor"

how about:
"blowout facilitator",
"containment preventor",
"impressive looking but useless widget designed to shut regulators up" (AKA "regulation preventor").
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:19 PM   #122
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Another well explosion

Doesn't say what type of operation they were working there... it just goes to show that accidents a prevalent in this type of business.

I don't see how anyone can be so cavalier - or at least not understand why so many people are concerned - about drilling for volatile resources - while using potentially toxic materials.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:42 PM   #123
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NPR just had a segment on Fracking.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...32770&ft=1&f=5

And there will be a movie called "Gasland" about hydrofracking on HBO monday night (June 21). I don't have HBO, so y'all will have to let me know how it is.
http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/
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Old 07-22-2010, 12:08 PM   #124
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I have a copy of Gasland on DVD, but haven't watched it yet.

Also, it is now making national headlines - been on the top 5 list for the science category for two days now
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Old 07-22-2010, 12:12 PM   #125
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Broome County just recently turned down an offer from a western fuel company to drill on 5300 acres of county property.

The were two groups against this...

1) Those that are against any hydraulic fracture style drilling

2) Those that thought the offer was not adequate enough
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:10 PM   #126
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Another Explosion

http://www.pressconnects.com/article...in+western+Pa.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:35 PM   #127
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The explosion in Pa does not look like fracking well explosion. It was not located in the marcellus drilling area and the explosion may have been sparked by welders
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:42 PM   #128
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Time for thread resurrection.

Here in Quebec the debate is raging. Turns out we have billions of bucks worth of methane (more accurate but politically unpopular designation of "natural" gas) in the St Lawrence river basin.

We also have government subsidized daycare, parental leave, health care, and a long list of govt. programs coming out the ying-yang. Trouble is, we have to increase our public debt roughly $1,000,000 per hour to pay for it. That's right, a million per hour, 24-7.

Enter the Utica shale formation. The govt. wants that gas so badly they are willing to throw even the most rudimentary environmental caution to the winds. After all, the USA will be drilling 32,000 wells per year by 2012.

I perused a posting from Propublica (not exactly an Exxon sponsored website) and quickly snipped out the following:


Quote:
has not received the same scientific scrutiny as the processes used for many other energy sources

“This is a field where there is almost no research,” “It is very much an emerging problem.”

often lack manpower and funding to do complex studies of underground geology.

many basic questions remain unanswered

more than a thousand reports [4] of water contamination from drilling across the country

found dozens of homes in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Colorado in which gas from drilling had migrated through underground cracks into basements or wells

companies will drill at least 32,000 new gas wells annually by 2012.
100 billion gallons of hazardous fluids will be used and disposed of each year

new regulations that might prevent many of these problems almost always lead to a fight…. getting rich or staying poor.

even the industry acknowledges the lack of science on key issues

methane gas has seeped underground for more than seven miles – several times what industry spokespeople say should be possible.

benzene, a chemical sometimes found in drilling additives, was discovered throughout a 28-mile long aquifer in Wyoming.

What is now needed most, according to scientists at the Environmental Protection Agency and elsewhere, is a rigorous scientific study that tracks the fracturing process and attempts to measure its reach into underground water supplies.

wastewater will likely be trucked to treatment plants that don’t routinely test for most of the chemicals the wastewater contains and that may not be equipped to remove them.

After the wastewater passes through the treatment plants it is dumped back into public waterways that supply drinking water to at least 27 million Americans

no national standard for an industrial process that is used prolifically in 32 states and will be used even more in the future.

Drilling companies are not required, for example, to report the discharge of toxic chemicals for the Toxics Release Inventory

administration, that explicitly prohibits the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating hydraulic fracturing under the Safe Drinking Water Act

EPA …had “serious reservations” about whether hydraulic fracturing was safe to do inside the New York City watershed and urged the state to consider possible threats to public health.

cut its oil and gas regulatory inspection staff….each inspector is still responsible for some 3,300 wells

Texas regulators promise they will issue new permits to drill within 72 hours


And it remains to be seen whether politicians and environmental regulators will make sure precautions are taken at the beginning of this new energy boom, or if they will leave the nation to clean up the mess after the boom goes bust, as it has had to do so many times in the past.
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Old 10-12-2010, 07:46 PM   #129
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I'll sleep better now tonight. Thanks Neil.
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:44 PM   #130
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Just to help you sleep a little better:

EPA did a groundwater survey in Pavillion, WY, and found multiple wells with methane gas, naphthalene, metals, phenols, nitrates, arsenic, benzene, caprolactam, and other chemical compounds above limits established by Safe Drinking Water Act. They are currently in stage 2 of sampling. A letter to residents recommends:
Quote:
that affected well owners take several precautionary health measures including using alternate sources of water for drinking and cooking, and, for homes affected by methane gas in wells, ventilating rooms while showering or washing clothes to avoid the risk of explosion.
Sounds like a place where we'd all like to live.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:55 PM   #131
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The sadness of the whole thing is that there is even the remotest possibilty that they would allow this, and yet to listen to all the news from the energy companies and the politicians you would be led to believe that there is doubt as to whether the impact of this would be negative.

I guess the new phrase is, "Money talks and truth walks"

hawk
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:34 AM   #132
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The sadness of the whole thing is that there is even the remotest possibilty that they would allow this, and yet to listen to all the news from the energy companies and the politicians you would be led to believe that there is doubt as to whether the impact of this would be negative.

I guess the new phrase is, "Money talks and truth walks"

hawk
Currently, in Quebec, the Office of Public Hearings on the Environment (BAPE) is investigating shale gas and frakking and experts from PA are here right now. Their investigations indicate that poor well design is what is behind the problems of well poisoning etc. The frakking process per se was not found not to be the cause. It is noteworthy that 1km of solid rock lays between the frakking sites and the ground water.

So, poor well design is thought to be the culprit and this will supposedly be replaced by a double containment system, which is designed to prevent escape of chemicals and methane.

I wonder why no one thought of that before?

At the same time that we have the Audience going on the Quebec Government just authorized Talisman to drill 6 wells with the same certificate of authorization. Normally, they authorize one well at a time but now it appears they are speeding things up, becoming more efficient in the authorization process, which is what the industry prefers.
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:05 PM   #133
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Wait, isn't the whole point of fracking to disrupt the natural containment that already exists by shattering the rock? That sounds like an inherently bad design.

How exactly do they propose to contain it? If one poorly designed "containment system" didn't work, why would a second poorly designed layer of containment do anything?

And why should we believe anything that these people say anyway? What credibility do they have? What objectivity do the investigators have?

This whole thing stinks, and not like methane.
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:18 PM   #134
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Wait, isn't the whole point of fracking to disrupt the natural containment that already exists by shattering the rock? That sounds like an inherently bad design.
Once it has been released by fracturing the rock, ie. the natural containment system, the idea is to get it up out of the ground, which is the tricky step and where it and the frakking chemicals get away into the water table.

Quote:
And why should we believe anything that these people say anyway?
Because they wear expensive 3-piece suits?


Quote:
What objectivity do the investigators have?
Who knows? They might have orders to spin the data so from one side of their mouths they talk green while the other side helps to increase the "efficiency" in well-drilling permit deliverance.

Quote:
This whole thing stinks, and not like methane.
Anaerobic decomposition of fecal material?
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:34 PM   #135
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We should put the companies in charge of safety and environmental concerns like we did in the Gulf of Mexico with BP.

After all, they know best, "eh"?

Hawk
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:39 PM   #136
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Actually Royal Shell recently bought out one of the Penna gas companies, East Resources, for some astronomical sum of money
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:45 PM   #137
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http://www.sacredheadwaters.com/
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:54 PM   #138
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Thanks for rebooting this thread ,Neil.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:43 PM   #139
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I'm assuming that there is no way to un-pollute these wells, right? Once the gas gets into the water table, that aquifer is ruined forever. As for the fracking fluid, since we don't actually know half of what's in it, who knows if that will ever go away.

talk about short sighted.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:31 PM   #140
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Just passing this along for those interested in the topic:

Halliburton Issued Subpoena For Refusing To Disclose Hydraulic Fracturing, 'Fracking,' Chemical Ingredients
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