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Old 10-03-2010, 09:23 AM   #1
Alpine1
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Wtf????

What Mary posted on the high peaks forum about our day on Saturday:

I am appalled, disgusted, saddened, there are not enough adjectives!
We climbed Cathedral Rock Fire Tower from the ranger school in Wanakena on Saturday;
the last fire tower peak for us. As we were standing in the tower a loud rumble started??? What could that be? we thought maybe a helicopter? No, it was Jeeps driving to the summit!!! Not one or two or even a dozen, but a mile of them!
and they all circled around and parked heading down hill. We came down from the tower as the swarm of people approached, and discovered they were part of a "CLUB" (many had a WWW.CNYJEEP.org logo on the top of the windshield); 64 of them the guy proudly proclaimed
Obviously I looked irritated, the one guy said they had permission to do this as a few of the members we alumni of the ranger school! WTF!!!???

So how can this be allowed on the summit of a hill in the Ranger School of all places?
Doesn't this go against everything you would think of about a Rangers and the environment?
Someone please explain!!!
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:33 AM   #2
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The map shows roads throughout that area. My personal view, as long as they have those roads to drive on they will be less likely to go where it is prohibited.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:13 AM   #3
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Sounds typical of law enforcement types. They think they are better than the ordinary citizen & can do whatever they want. Wishful thinking that they will always stick to the roads, it's inevitable a few will start tearing up every wet spot they come upon. They have to go home with mud on their jeeps you know. They're in the club, who's going to tell them they're wrong? Do a search on youtube for this type of activity & you'll see the destruction. How stupid it is to drive a whole bunch of jeeps to a mountain top! I'm sure there was much photography to record the great event. How lame!
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Old 10-03-2010, 12:38 PM   #4
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Alpine1: I'm sorry they ruined your trip being it was your last to complete. I would be upset too but they did have permission. I don't think they would have been granted permission without good reason. Possibly they made a contribution?

Duct Tape: +1 for sure. The roads on the school property are VERY well maintained so theres little chance they'd cause any distruction there.

8thday: Only a small number of Rangerschool grads go on to law enforcement careers. Many go on to work in Forest related fields such as foresters, forest technicians, property managers and loggers. Others like myself go into land surveying. I don't ever think I've met a Rangerschool grad that didn't have a deep appreciation for the environment. As for the youtube videos, they do show alot of distruction in many of those clips but I assure you if people were allowed up there then none of that behavior was allowed.

Also, Some Rangerschool alumni played a major role in the restoring and moving of that tower from its former location on Tooley Pond Mountain to where it sits now. It's the nicest tower I've ever been in although I've only been in a few.

Again, sorry it ruined your day but I assure you that's not something your likely to see up there very often.

Gregg
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:14 PM   #5
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minor threadjack....

hey Gregg, let me know if/when you want to hit the trails again for another adventure. There is that one trail we saw last time I still want to explore, plus a few more in the same area.

/threadjack
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:28 PM   #6
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#1 - Im sorry the trip was ruined for you - I go to the woods for quiet also....
#2 - Im sorry myopic people feel that their opinion (of "law enforcement") people had to creep into the conversation - Im a cop - decorated several times- shot once - stabbed once and punched a whole lot - PROTECTING your rights to have the opinion you hold - but please - keep it to yourself....
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:42 PM   #7
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My bad, I made an analogy between ranger school & law enforcement. I thought the topic involving law enforcement had already "creeped" into the conversation in the first post. The point I was making is this group got permission to drive a bunch of jeeps somewhere ordinary people wouldn't be allowed because some of them were ranger school alumni. That sounds like preferential treatment to me. I can't change the fact that cops get preferential treatment, that's just the way it is. I was thinking ranger/law enforcement. Thanks for protecting & serving. Glad you're still with us after all that. But I still stand by my opinion. Sorry you don't like it. I don't dis-like cops personally, I dis-like the attitude a lot of them have about themselves being above the law. I went to high school with quite a few people who became cops, so I know the whole cop world thing that eventually happens to most all of them. My opinion is just that, which I'm free to give. It's a right given to me a long, long time ago. I don't think you as law enforcement play any role in protecting that. You may be thinking about someone in the military, then I could understand your last statement having merit. Of course there's the chance you were in the military too, so an extra thanks for that if applicable. If so then I'll shut up just this one time. Anyway it is stupid to drive those jeeps around in miles long convoys disturbing the peace & more stupid if rangers are among them. There is that more precise & concise? Everyone's entitled to their opinion still, did you know?
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:06 PM   #8
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what a person does for a living has no bearing if they are a nit wit -some people act like morons no matter what they do - how much they make, or where they are from.....
It doesnt matter - people go to the woods to have a good time - they DONT have any right to disrespect any one else - or ruin the other persons good time......
Its very unfortunate that people cant go to the woods or waters - seek their respective peace and good times, and move on to the next day.....it would be a nicer place if they could.....l
As far as the Military - GOD BLESS them - may they all be home soon - but - what they start on distant shores - my sorry ass defends at home - so YOU can have opinions AND voice them - with out reprisal from any one - its like fingers in a glove - the hand is less effective with out all the fingers working together....
You are no better than me and vice versa - no matter what I do for a living and no matter what you do - have a lucky day
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:02 PM   #9
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So if law enforcement plays no role in protecting us then we should get rid of the FBI, CIA, etc..?
I said law enforcement has no role in protecting my right to free speech.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:15 PM   #10
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Hey guys, you're wildly off topic.

The OP was about a jeep club obtaining permission to ride over a mountain because some of the members of the club were alumni of the Wanakena forest ranger school.

Leave the military, the cops, the FBI and the CIA out of it.

Alpine, I hope you told them that because they drove, the summit didn't count
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:29 PM   #11
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O.K. I caused the drift, I'm sorry. I'll try harder to be more subjective. P.S. the CIA is not law enforcement by the way. Sorry again, had to squeeze that in.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:12 PM   #12
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The land that is part of the Ranger School is not Forest Preserve land. Even though it is called the "ranger" school, the primary focus of education is on timber management and harvesting techniques, as well as surveying, rather than recreation management. (It's probably called the Ranger School because an associates degree in forest technology is the minimum requirement in most places to be a forest ranger).

Because much of the land is used extensively for educating students who will be moving on into careers in Forestry (particularly managing forests for timber production), it is only to be expected that there will be motorized vehicle and equipment use on this land, including large trucks, skidders, and the use of chainsaws. I imagine that the Ranger School has a pretty similar "hands on" emphasis to education that Paul Smiths has, and so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there were a significant amount of use of this equipment on Ranger School property.

That being said, recreation is also a valid and accepted use of managed forested lands. I think that when a recreational destination as attractive as a Fire Tower is actively moved from state land and erected at the Ranger School, there is a reasonable expectation that the land surrounding the fire tower will be managed with primarily recreational values in mind. Allowing 64 ORV vehicles access to work roads leading to a recreational destination certainly doesn't sound like appropriate management, particularly in an area that is probably not managed with ORV vehicle use in mind. Remember too, though, that regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the use of motorized vehicles in forested lands, to the operators, they are are recreating too... they just choose to do it in a different manner.
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Old 10-05-2010, 04:59 PM   #13
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Thanks, DSettahr, for reminding folks that there is both Forest Preserve and non-Forest Preserve land within the Blue Line. And also that there are multiple types of recreation, and as long as they are legal, one is not better than another. (I'd certainly rather be hiking than jeeping, but...).
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:09 PM   #14
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Once again,

DSettahr comes up with the rational, fact based response to the question... right on, man! There's a lot of uses for the mountains other than hiking.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:17 PM   #15
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I was just curious. If they had taken just 46 jeeps to the top, would they have gotten some kind of patch?

Hawk
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:50 PM   #16
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I was just curious. If they had taken just 46 jeeps to the top, would they have gotten some kind of patch?

Hawk
Nah, you only get the patch once you've driven your jeep to 46 different summits!
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:19 PM   #17
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there were a significant amount of use of this equipment on Ranger School property.
Is this public property or private? I'm just asking cus can we complain what people do on their own property?
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Is this public property or private? I'm just asking cus can we complain what people do on their own property?
Well... it's a public school (the ranger school is a state school, run by ESF out of Syracuse). But that doesn't mean that the property is public, although portions of it are open to the public. I'm not entirely sure how it works.

I'm curious... do you ask because you are opposed to the use of motorized vehicles and equipment for educational purposes on lands owned by ESF? Or are you supporting their right to use what equipment they see fit to further educational objectives on their own land? Your post is kind of ambiguous as to the point you're trying to make.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Rickie View Post
Is this public property or private? I'm just asking cus can we complain what people do on their own property?
Quote:
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Your post is kind of ambiguous as to the point you're trying to make.
It seems his point is pretty clear to me.. if it is private property it is their choice how they use it.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:39 PM   #20
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It seems his point is pretty clear to me.. if it is private property it is their choice how they use it.
I also felt it was easy to interpret it as saying that if the school is public property, then we as a public do have the right and should complain about how it's managed. The basis of the argument is the same either way, I guess, I just felt it wasn't clear which direction he was trying to take it because of what he quoted from my post.
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