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Old 03-19-2018, 07:23 AM   #21
wiiawiwb
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Originally Posted by Bounder45 View Post
Apologies. You recommended a 10mm, but my point still stands: .357ís terminal ballistics easily match or outright exceed those of 10mm. Why do you consider .357 underpowered?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The ballistics are similar but I would argue the terminal ballistics weigh in favor of the 10mm. The .357 bullet has a diameter .358 bullet while the 10mm is .400. The 10mm punches a bigger hole which means faster blood loss. That is why I would always choose a 45 Colt over a 44 magnum. Bigger hole.

Some people handle recoil differently but in my long-slide Glock 40MOS, there is literally almost no recoil. My 9mm jumps around more than the 10mm.

The concept behind a big bore handgun is you will get the same or better results from one round than with several in a smaller caliber. One and done.

The arguments favoring a smaller caliber are that it recoils less and maybe, just maybe, you can get off multiple rounds. If you can, you can be on target faster for the next round. In an ugly situation, such as a surprise attack from an injured animal in the brush, you may only have time to spin around, aim, and fire one round. In that case, you want to make the most of it and recoil is irrelevant because you won't have time for a second shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9bMdXxn4RU

Size matters.

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Old 03-19-2018, 09:28 AM   #22
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Hunting/Tracking Sidearm

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Originally Posted by wiiawiwb View Post
The ballistics are similar but I would argue the terminal ballistics weigh in favor of the 10mm. The .357 bullet has a diameter .358 bullet while the 10mm is .400. The 10mm punches a bigger hole which means faster blood loss. That is why I would always choose a 45 Colt over a 44 magnum. Bigger hole.


........



Size matters.

10mm is a bigger caliber, but it also has a lower sectional density, lower velocity and energy.

To some degree, size does matter. But I think 10mm and .357 are close enough that the magnumís marginally smaller bullet diameter isnít going to make any difference.

I do think either caliber will likely work, but I also think .357 has a bit more of an established track record for dealing with big and dangerous game.

As for recoil for hunting or defense with a moving animal, yes I know there will only be an opportunity for 1-2, maybe 3 shots. I prefer a .357 or even a 10mm because they seem to facilitate follow up shots more readily than a bigger magnum.

I think that a lot of people who preach the .44 mag and similar cartridges may have experience shooting in a stress-free range environment but little to none employing one against an animal in the field. Shoot-ability is an important quality i seek in any firearm that I intend to own and use.



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Old 03-19-2018, 10:43 AM   #23
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I’m a big fan of Deer Hunting with the .44 Mag both Rifle and Revolver. For years I have successfully taken whitetail with my Ruger Super Blackhawk. Being fortunate in having a place to practice year round and being a handloader enabled me to be taylor my handload to the gun and my eyes. The excitement does go up when a nice Buck is coming in but it’s not the high stress situation one experiences facing a mad Bear. These days my eyes are not the same thus my skill level has suffered with the Revolver so now I just sit on a stump with my .44 rifle. I still practice regularly with my Revolver but for hunting my limitations have increased. Having said all of that, I still wouldn’t hesitate in using a proper .357 Mag Revolver, with the right load, and lots of practice for tracking wounded game.
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Old 03-19-2018, 04:53 PM   #24
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I carried a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 mag. when I lived and hunted in Montana. Also carried it fishing in Alaska. Some pretty big game out there...
It certainly kicked but wasn't nearly as bad as many people without experience believe. Sold it before I moved back east. I loved that pistola.

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Old 03-19-2018, 08:48 PM   #25
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I never got into handguns until a few years ago. And all I have is a .22 S&W revolver that I carry from time to time, mostly in hopes of picking off a grouse, or for some fun plinking at camp. My uncle always carried one. But I do a lot walking most days and don't opt for the extra weight of the sidearm. At some point I may look for a light revolver that doubles as a viable defense firearm in a .357 or .38, which should be good enough to finish off a buck and even get into reloading. You know, one of those "someday" retirement concepts.
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bounder45 View Post
As for recoil for hunting or defense with a moving animal, yes I know there will only be an opportunity for 1-2, maybe 3 shots. I prefer a .357 or even a 10mm because they seem to facilitate follow up shots more readily than a bigger magnum.

I think that a lot of people who preach the .44 mag and similar cartridges may have experience shooting in a stress-free range environment but little to none employing one against an animal in the field. Shoot-ability is an important quality i seek in any firearm that I intend to own and use.

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You're a bit presumptuous thinking that you will have two or even three shots. IMO, you'd be better served planning for only one and be thankful you had a second.

Where on earth did you come up with the notion that those who handle big-bore revolvers have no experience with animals in the field? That notion is both silly on its face and counterintuitive.

Can you provide us any scientific research to support your conclusion?
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:07 PM   #27
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Not handguns, but big, slow bullets nearly extirpated the buffalo.
Once I move back to NY and wait the year or so to get my NY permit, I may hunt with my .45 Colt revolver, that cartridge has been around 145 years and will still to the job.

Big slow and old, We ought to get along real well.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:43 PM   #28
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You're a bit presumptuous thinking that you will have two or even three shots. IMO, you'd be better served planning for only one and be thankful you had a second.



Where on earth did you come up with the notion that those who handle big-bore revolvers have no experience with animals in the field? That notion is both silly on its face and counterintuitive.



Can you provide us any scientific research to support your conclusion?


Iím stating my opinion when it comes to recoil, as are you. Iíve dealt with big recoil in other firearms before. Some of those cartridges offer superior ballistics over the cartridges I regularly deal with, but the recoil is definitely a hassle to deal with, even when using the proper mitigation techniques.

Iíve yet to fire .44 mag, but if my suspicions are confirmed, Iím thinking there are other options that are equally viable while offering more shoot-ability.

Maybe my mind will change after some test firing. However, Iíve seen enough feedback which suggests that 10mm and .357 will be more than adequate for my purposes.

My comments on big magnum cartridge advocates was directed at the general internet crowd, not at anyone in particular on this forum. There is a lot of internet ďexpertiseĒ on firearms which I often find contradictory to my own real world experience. That was my meaning.


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Old 03-20-2018, 04:06 PM   #29
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Bounder45, this was a great discussion and I enjoyed it. In reality it all just boils down to what each individual is comfortable with in his or her own zone. Let us know what handgun you finally choose, I know it will be the right choice for you......jack
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:57 PM   #30
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If the idea is to carry a side arm only the discussion is much different than sidearm and rifle or shotgun....
As a tracker, your target may be a wounded animal that will move if you get too close to it. Your target is not always at close range. To put it out of it's suffering you will need to reach it were it is, not neccesarily try to get close. For those situations where you need to reach 60, 80, 100 plus yards you should consider a scoped 44 Magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter. That gun will reach out as far as you need it to but can also serve at closer range.
If you intend to carry a shotgun or rifle for the farther shots then why not carry a Ruger Flattop 44 Special? If you need all six it's a bad day...
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Old 03-20-2018, 11:30 PM   #31
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I would choose a 357 mag revolver. Revolvers are reliable, you can rest your hammer on an empty chamber making it safer while crawling through thick brush. 44 mags , 10mm and larger calibers , recoil make them difficult to shoot.
Yeah- they figured out all this some time ago. You can't make a modern revolver shoot without the trigger INTENTIONALLY engaged ... there is simply not a physical contact with a resting hammer and the pin. Instead there is an open space- pulling the trigger raises a tang that closes the space...without the trigger being pulled and held there- there is no possibility of the pin being touched., you'd have to compress the steel of the hammer to close this space. An impossible task, unless you destroyed the gun with a sledge hammer- and even then I'd bet on the gun not going off.! Even a drop of a pistol with a cocked hammer, if the trigger was somehow tripped, it would most likely instantly reset and the tang is designed to fall away before the hammer could made contact with the tang. Of course there is a chance in the drop of the trigger being held in place like a finger does... It would have to be pulled back and basically held there somehow... So i would not have the hammer cocked in your scenario... The revolver is still the choice of lot of law enforcement for a reason as they never jam, and are inherently safe with a round at the ready being handled every day, despite only 6 rounds available.

That being said, While I often carry my revolver, I'd still prefer a semi automatic, but i'd only carry that on an empty chamber, unless ready to shoot/actively hunting, but the safety is always on, safety flipped off in the last moment in the same motion as I am aiming - same rule with my semi-auto shotgun or bolt action rifle...they can go off accidentally with a round chambered, like crossing a fence, or laid in a corner, or crawling through brush
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:58 AM   #32
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Iím stating my opinion when it comes to recoil, as are you. Iíve dealt with big recoil in other firearms before. Some of those cartridges offer superior ballistics over the cartridges I regularly deal with, but the recoil is definitely a hassle to deal with, even when using the proper mitigation techniques.

Iíve yet to fire .44 mag, but if my suspicions are confirmed, Iím thinking there are other options that are equally viable while offering more shoot-ability.

Maybe my mind will change after some test firing. However, Iíve seen enough feedback which suggests that 10mm and .357 will be more than adequate for my purposes.

My comments on big magnum cartridge advocates was directed at the general internet crowd, not at anyone in particular on this forum. There is a lot of internet ďexpertiseĒ on firearms which I often find contradictory to my own real world experience. That was my meaning.
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I don't have a dog in this fight but I would encourage you to actually shoot all of these calibers in both revolver and semi-automatic platforms, if available ( 454 Casull is not). Only then can you draw conclusions about what works for you. Moreover, the way firearm fits your hand is very particular. Strangely enough, the Glock 40MOS (10mm) is the clumsiest-feeling handgun I have yet I shoot it more accurately than any other. Go figure.

In the end, you have to be comfortable with what you ultimately carry. If your final conclusion is a 357 magnum then go with. Ruger makes some outstanding revolvers and the GP-100 would serve you well. I would encourage you to feel all barrel lengths in the GP-100. It comes in 2.5", 3", 4.2", 5", and 6". Some might feel nose heavy while others are too light in the barrel. You'll know which one balances and feels best for you.

Good luck.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:21 AM   #33
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:38 PM   #34
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By the way, update on this...between additional research and some range time, I've narrowed my focus to a S&W TRR8 (or the M&P equivalent R8):

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearm...model-327-trr8

Scandium frame, stainless steel barrel and cylinder, 8 shots chambered in .357 mag. A bit pricey ($900-$1k), but all the reviews have said it's pretty much good to go right out of the box without having to fiddle with anything. Currently looking on gunbroker for one, and hopefully I'll be picking up something soon.

Went and shot a few different cartridges recently, including both .357 mag and .44 mag. The .44 mag was a handful; even with a very deliberate grip, it wanted to snap out of my hands. Now granted that particular revolver (a 4" S&W combat magnum) was on the lighter end of the spectrum, but I don't see myself wanting to practice extensively with the .44 mag. Plus, .357 ammo is cheaper by comparison, and I can practice with .38 special which is even cheaper.

I was willing to give the venerable .44 mag a shot (pun intended), but the recoil and ammo cost dissuaded me from going that route. And I have a newly-found skepticism for all the internet experts who claim they can put accurate rounds on a charging and angry target with that cartridge. It's just not a cartridge that lends itself to practical accuracy in my humble opinion.
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:10 AM   #35
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Nice choice! When I used to be able to run, it was recommended by the so called experts, to run 100 yards to your firing line, draw and fire. This would simulate the stress involved in any self defense situation either man or beast. When I was able to do this my target for this drill was a paper plate at 25 yards, the self defense experts recommend 7 yards. I know for a fact that recovery time for a .44 Mag will definitely slow you down for a 2nd shot. With the adrenaline flowing weird things can happen with any caliber. I too question the You Tube internet people who claim to be experts on this stuff. Bottom line is to just safety practice, know your gun (tool), plan for the worst and hope for the best.
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