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Old 12-01-2010, 06:30 PM   #161
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Tp tpo that off, if the process is so safe, as the energy companies (One being Haliburton who usually gathers with rats) claim, why are they unwilling to release the information on what chemicals they are actually pumping into the shale beds?

hawk

Just read this in the local weekly paper.... it list the chemicals used...http://www.observer-review.com/news.php?viewStory=1838
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:01 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by redhawk:
Tp tpo that off, if the process is so safe, as the energy companies (One being Haliburton who usually gathers with rats) claim, why are they unwilling to release the information on what chemicals they are actually pumping into the shale beds?

hawk
Along the same lines, why are the gas/oil companies requiring that the state legislation allowing for the drilling hold the companies' harmless for any environmental damage they cause? If it is 'so safe" they should be willing to back up each of their wells with a $1 trillion bond. Put their money where their mouth is.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:18 PM   #163
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Along the same lines, why are the gas/oil companies requiring that the state legislation allowing for the drilling hold the companies' harmless for any environmental damage they cause? If it is 'so safe" they should be willing to back up each of their wells with a $1 trillion bond. Put their money where their mouth is.
So true Russ, BUT will any amount of money ever restore the damage done totally? I tend to think it will just be a band-aide that almost makes it better, but there will still be scars...

There is so much more than the frakking chemicals...the surface disturbance and related above ground activities, water use, used water disposal, road degradation, soil compaction,flora destruction, it just goes on and on...
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:14 PM   #164
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So true Russ, BUT will any amount of money ever restore the damage done totally? I tend to think it will just be a band-aide that almost makes it better, but there will still be scars...

There is so much more than the frakking chemicals...the surface disturbance and related above ground activities, water use, used water disposal, road degradation, soil compaction,flora destruction, it just goes on and on...
I agree. There is no amount of money that can undo the damage that WILL be caused. I simply cannot stand for the hypocrisy of the "it is perfectly safe, but if it isn't don't make us pay for it" mentality.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:01 PM   #165
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Just read this in the local weekly paper.... it list the chemicals used...http://www.observer-review.com/news.php?viewStory=1838
Oh Good. I'll sleep easier. After all it's from Halliburton so we can take them at their word.

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Old 12-02-2010, 08:26 AM   #166
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hawk i was saying that the money from the well construction is going to out of state bussiness and i wolud rather put local men and women on the projects to see the money spent in our state . If its going to happen .Many out of state crew spend money on food and lodging only in the area and send the rest home. The reference to pa was that we all created a demand for such extraction and that we are all guilty weather its coal gas or oil. Not that pa is taking our economy . We have used pa coal and gas for years. now its in the front yard here at home we all begin to ask why.Sorry to say but the drilling will happen and im not happy with it also. There are many wells that were drilled in th 80s throughout ny and capped just waiting for the lease owners to show up and tap them .Maybe even frak them if the law allows. Its the dirt under the carpet no one is talking about. Someone here has to remember when the gas hunters were leasing land back then . I know of 2 close to home sitting silently on a couple farms not touched by man for years .When time comes they will tap them and start the extraction im sure . if everyone was more concerned in the 80s we would of had a 30 year jump on opposition to them!
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:53 AM   #167
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hawk i was saying that the money from the well construction is going to out of state bussiness and i wolud rather put local men and women on the projects to see the money spent in our state . If its going to happen .Many out of state crew spend money on food and lodging only in the area and send the rest home. The reference to pa was that we all created a demand for such extraction and that we are all guilty weather its coal gas or oil. Not that pa is taking our economy . We have used pa coal and gas for years. now its in the front yard here at home we all begin to ask why.Sorry to say but the drilling will happen and im not happy with it also. There are many wells that were drilled in th 80s throughout ny and capped just waiting for the lease owners to show up and tap them .Maybe even frak them if the law allows. Its the dirt under the carpet no one is talking about. Someone here has to remember when the gas hunters were leasing land back then . I know of 2 close to home sitting silently on a couple farms not touched by man for years .When time comes they will tap them and start the extraction im sure . if everyone was more concerned in the 80s we would of had a 30 year jump on opposition to them!
Dog, I understand your frustration, but every time there's anything like this the first thing you hear is "How many jobs it's going to create" and that "It's good for local business".

However, all too often they import specialized CHEAP labor and whatever positive effect it has on the community is short lived. Often non residents move to an area for the jobs and years later when whatever it is runs out, communities are left with even larger populations that no longer have any incomes. Look at MIchigan and the communities that were tied to automobile production. They are the worst hit today and the states don't have the resources to take caae of them and the other non effected people don't want their tax dollars going to help the "poor". Look at the dilemma with unemployment compensation today. The pols want to cut it back and leave hundreds of thousands people out in the cold, Literally. Who's going to pay their rent, feed them and provide warmth?

You may think I'm being extreme here when I say that what I am observing now is the same thing that brought about the complete collapse of many societies in the past. But it's true.

So for me the "jobs" and "local business" arguments are part of a short term fix, not a long term solution. What communities need to do is to diversify their revenue generation rather then becoming dependent on one main source. That's what gets us all into trouble.

Anytime you hear "More Jobs" you can be sure that the people saying it are politicians or people who have a financial stake in the issue.

Hawk
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:05 PM   #168
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Just read this in the local weekly paper.... it list the chemicals used...http://www.observer-review.com/news.php?viewStory=1838
According to the article, "[s]ome of the chemicals used repeatedly that are listed as hazardous are acetic acid...."

All of the sudden, I have a hankering to eat a pickle.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #169
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Picture this in the Finger Lakes farm and wine country...
That looks like some awfully flat land in that picture,not representative of what you would find in the Finger Lakes or Pennsylvania.I would venture to guess that the picture shown is not even from this part of the country.I've delivered products to well sites in Pa. for the company I work for and from everything I have seen the landscape there or here will never look like that picture.A link to views of sites in Pa. and what could be expected here follows.
http://www.marcellus-shale.us/
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Old 12-14-2010, 02:18 PM   #170
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That looks like some awfully flat land in that picture,not representative of what you would find in the Finger Lakes or Pennsylvania.I would venture to guess that the picture shown is not even from this part of the country.I've delivered products to well sites in Pa. for the company I work for and from everything I have seen the landscape there or here will never look like that picture.A link to views of sites in Pa. and what could be expected here follows.
http://www.marcellus-shale.us/
Thanks, that is a great link!
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Old 12-14-2010, 02:21 PM   #171
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Paterson ....Comment Period Needed !

A new comment period on the proposed regulations is going into effect.
So get out there and let yourself be heard.

http://fwix.com/ithaca/share/426a637...A80%2Fmain.asp
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:01 AM   #172
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From Texas...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._WSJ_US_News_5
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:36 AM   #173
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Overstepping state regulators, the EPA ordered Range Resources to identify how its gas reached the water well and eliminate the flow. The Fort Worth-based company denies its drilling is responsible.

The panel that regulates the gas industry in Texas, the Railroad Commission, said there was insufficient evidence to support the EPA's claims. One commissioner accused the federal agency of "grandstanding" and practicing "Washington politics of the worst kind."

Meanwhile, communities sitting atop the Barnett Shale aren't getting any definitive answers. "It's frustrating," said Mark Riley, the top Parker County executive. "There seems to be more attempts at denying the problem and blaming Washington for interfering than there is to grab ahold of it and solve it."
If the drilling causes some contamination then OK, find the problem, fix it, compensate the victims and move ahead. But to have the audacity to deny that you are in any way responsible for sudden well water contamination, which just so happens to coincide with your drilling and fracking (a still new and difficult to predict technique), is what totally destroys credibility and makes people rightfully and totally distrustful. And to think they probably have people on board who have PhD's in public relations and marketing. Duh!
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:34 AM   #174
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And to think they probably have people on board who have PhD's in public relations and marketing. Duh!
That's just a fancy term for creative lying.

Remember: Super tankers were "safe", "Deep Offshore Drilling was/is "safe".

Personally, I think that right now the energy companies are trying to squeeze every penny out of fossil fuels denying the feasability of Green methods while they are in the process of buying up lands and the technologies that will allow them to continue their monopoly energy market. They're heavy into the bio fuels already.

When you scrape away all the layers of bull****, it's always about the money. It's never about public health or safety, truth or what will benefit the citizens the most. And that's as true from the politicians as it is from the corporations and developers.

Take the money and run and leave the communities to deal with the aftermath.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:43 AM   #175
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When you scrape away all the layers of bull****, it's always about the money. It's never about public health or safety, truth or what will benefit the citizens the most.
In a way, many of us are a part of the problem. I'm thinking about the pressure for higher stock market returns, mutual funds and pension funds that are merciless in their demands for performance. Just announcing that a particular quarter's profits will be 25% less than predicted can result in a big selloff and big market value drop. It's crazy.

Being self-employed I am a one-man pension fund and all of my retirement money is in mutual funds and I doubt I'm the only one who wants to get double digit performance. (I moved to 100% cash one year before the big crash and re-invested it all just before the recent climb.)
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:45 AM   #176
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It's about the money, and the politics, which are inextricably linked these days.

Have you seen the latest from Right Wing Watch, in which they claim that environmental concerns are being drummed up to intentionally threaten and undermine Christianity. Really? It's not about being concerned for people's health and well-being, and that of the planet?
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:43 PM   #177
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It's about the money, and the politics, which are inextricably linked these days.

Have you seen the latest from Right Wing Watch, in which they claim that environmental concerns are being drummed up to intentionally threaten and undermine Christianity. Really? It's not about being concerned for people's health and well-being, and that of the planet?
I've always wondered if many of these "Christians" ever read the new testament.

Unless I can't read, it's message is to care for the sick, the poor and the oppressed.

Hawk
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:23 PM   #178
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(I moved to 100% cash one year before the big crash and re-invested it all just before the recent climb.)
You're in the wrong business. Get out of medicine and get into financial planning. I'll be your first client.
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:57 PM   #179
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A new comment period on the proposed regulations is going into effect.
So get out there and let yourself be heard.

http://fwix.com/ithaca/share/426a637...A80%2Fmain.asp

Big Bump!!!!
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Old 12-19-2010, 12:03 AM   #180
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I've always wondered if many of these "Christians" ever read the new testament.

Unless I can't read, it's message is to care for the sick, the poor and the oppressed.

Hawk
Through that website, I found out about this interfaith group which seems like a great idea to me: http://greenfaith.org/about
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