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Old 12-08-2018, 04:02 PM   #41
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What if you’re walking to the barn with a 5 gallon bucket of corn for the cows get lost end up in the woods accidentally dump the bucket, forget where you dumped said corn and sit in close proximity of the corn, is that baiting?...I’m asking for a friend that gets lost a lot
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:42 PM   #42
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What if youíre walking to the barn with a 5 gallon bucket of corn for the cows get lost end up in the woods accidentally dump the bucket, forget where you dumped said corn and sit in close proximity of the corn, is that baiting?...Iím asking for a friend that gets lost a lot
If you are sitting in the woods with a gun or a bow, you will be ticketed for baiting. Even if you didn't place the bait, if you find some in the woods and take advantage of it by hunting close by, you are using the bait.

And you were bringing this hypothetical 5 gallon bucket of corn from where to where for your cows, and how do you get lost and end up back in the woods doing that?
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:18 PM   #43
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One is a violation the other is a criminal charge - classification under law.
Analogous to speeding ticket vs. DWI.
That doesn't really line up with my point because speeding doesn't automatically mean you're drunk. You can speed for a ton of reasons. Why else would you bait? Just seems like a razor thin line between baiting to kill or not to kill, but a huge gap in the punishment.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:29 PM   #44
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That doesn't really line up with my point because speeding doesn't automatically mean you're drunk. You can speed for a ton of reasons. Why else would you bait? Just seems like a razor thin line between baiting to kill or not to kill, but a huge gap in the punishment.
As an admitted non-hunter, you just don't get it, do you.
Once a kill is made there's no turning back. "hunters say that using bait spits in the face of good sportsmanship, and that’s why the vast majority of bait hunters who are caught get reported to the DEC by upstanding sportsmen. They draw a distinct line between hunting and killing.”

“Hunting over bait spoils it because it’s not fair,” said Frank LaBuda, the Sullivan County judge and veteran hunter. “Let’s face it, to draw the deer toward you and away from their natural habitat so you can get an easy shot is killing, not hunting"
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:49 PM   #45
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As an admitted non-hunter, you just don't get it, do you.
Once a kill is made there's no turning back. "hunters say that using bait spits in the face of good sportsmanship, and thatís why the vast majority of bait hunters who are caught get reported to the DEC by upstanding sportsmen. They draw a distinct line between hunting and killing.Ē

ďHunting over bait spoils it because itís not fair,Ē said Frank LaBuda, the Sullivan County judge and veteran hunter. ďLetís face it, to draw the deer toward you and away from their natural habitat so you can get an easy shot is killing, not hunting"

I laughed when you included the comment that "I don't get it" because you are not even in the universe of the point. I get what you are saying, but it's not even close to what I originally said so I'd attach your little head banging emoji onto your own comment.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:02 PM   #46
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I understand that your question is why is there is the dicotomy between the relatively low fine for the violation of placing a bait and the of the high penalty for what is determined to be the crime of placing a bait with being caught of actually killing over a bait. If you were a true ethical and fair hunting/fishing sportsman you would understand the reason for the difference. Since you do not get it, I shall thus repeat: Yes that is me banging my head.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:17 AM   #47
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It is noteworthy that most of these reported baiting violations are in downstate areas that border or are near New Jersey, where baiting is allowed (or so I am told by some of the "wonderfully ethical" fishers that come from NJ to " harvest" salmon in the Salmon River.) I have to assume that with a high population density and a too large deer herd (measured by things like number of motor vehicle accidents), the goal is to get the hunters and deer out of the woods quickly, so fair chase goes out the window.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:54 AM   #48
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It is noteworthy that most of these reported baiting violations are in downstate areas that border or are near New Jersey, where baiting is allowed (or so I am told by some of the "wonderfully ethical" fishers that come from NJ to " harvest" salmon in the Salmon River.)
That is definitely not the case. If you follow the weekly reporting from the DEC you would see that this is a statewide issue.
Anyone hunting in NYS with a NYS license is obligated to know and follow NYS rules and regulations...even if they happen to be from New Jersey.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:25 AM   #49
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Yep...can't use salt licks or bait in NY, but the sporting goods stores can sell it.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:00 PM   #50
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That doesn't really line up with my point because speeding doesn't automatically mean you're drunk. You can speed for a ton of reasons. Why else would you bait? Just seems like a razor thin line between baiting to kill or not to kill, but a huge gap in the punishment.
You can still be speeding while drunk...
I can't claim to know why someone would bait, but they could argue anything from "watching wildlife" to disposing of unwanted produce / establishing compost pile (as in farming operation).

The line may seem 'razor thin' to you, but in reality nothing is either black or white - that's the reason ECOs have discretion.

There's a range of charges that can be brought, anything from 'baiting' to 'hunting over bait' to 'taking game over bait'.

Baiting is placing / having an attractant in the woods during hunting season.

The 'standard' (if there's such a thing) legal doctrine is that damages sought must reflect "material harm inflicted".
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:35 PM   #51
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That is definitely not the case. If you follow the weekly reporting from the DEC you would see that this is a statewide issue.
Anyone hunting in NYS with a NYS license is obligated to know and follow NYS rules and regulations...even if they happen to be from New Jersey.
It was the case in the weekly report cited here, the violators for baiting were from Suffolk, Ulster, and Sullivan Counties. My point is that maybe a lot of downstaters are picking up bad habits from the neighbors. But yes there are low lifes baiting in other parts of the state. The prior report had one from Wayne County.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:31 AM   #52
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Now I'm starting to wonder who the real baiter is. In some states it is legal to bait. I most always see game when I'm in the Park. Why anyone would have to bait unless there is too much game in a particular area, and the DER or DEC wants to prune populations, is beyond me, and I don't even hunt anymore. But I usually give the Poster the benefit of the doubt because we should be a fellowship of good sportsmen here and misunderstanding can and does often occur to some of us. So pull up a rocker in front of the warm fire and enjoy the company.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:09 AM   #53
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Yep...can't use salt licks or bait in NY, but the sporting goods stores can sell it.
That has me baffled as well.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:52 PM   #54
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Guys,

I live in NJ and tried trout fishing once on the Flathead up near the Delaware Water Gap. Was having no luck. Then a guy and his son came along in his SUV and told me I was doing it wrong. The DEC truck full of trout to stock the river was due any minute, and I should have the same food as bait that the trout about to be released had been used to eating. Told me after the initial shock of being dumped, the trout immediately strike what they know. Sure enough the truck appeared trailed by a long line of SUV's full of guys ready to jump at every dump. My new found pal told me he had his limit in 15 minutes using the technique he had just described the year before, and he offered me some of his bait. I declined.

Haven't fished the Flathead since.

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Old 12-11-2018, 06:25 PM   #55
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That has me baffled as well.
And yet they banished Lawn Jarts.........
The big box stores generate tax revenue...the DEC is unable to block them from selling these items..so they enforce the crimes when they are made aware of them. I'm in favor of discontinuing sales of lures, bates, feeders etc. but if you look at the empty shelves, I must be in the minority.

Any farmer that carries a 5 gallon pail of corn out into the woods is not legit. The trick is to stop the combine in front of your stand and dump a few pails with the screw.....spills happen.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:28 PM   #56
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Guys,

a guy and his son came along in his SUV and told me I was doing it wrong. The DEC truck full of trout to stock the river was due any minute, and I should have the same food as bait that the trout about to be released had been used to eating.Skid
It sounds like this guy was a master.....
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:52 PM   #57
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Guys,

I live in NJ and tried trout fishing once on the Flathead up near the Delaware Water Gap. Was having no luck. Then a guy and his son came along in his SUV and told me I was doing it wrong. The DEC truck full of trout to stock the river was due any minute, and I should have the same food as bait that the trout about to be released had been used to eating. Told me after the initial shock of being dumped, the trout immediately strike what they know. Sure enough the truck appeared trailed by a long line of SUV's full of guys ready to jump at every dump. My new found pal told me he had his limit in 15 minutes using the technique he had just described the year before, and he offered me some of his bait. I declined.

Haven't fished the Flathead since.

Skid

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Old 12-11-2018, 09:42 PM   #58
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And yet they banished Lawn Jarts.........
:
I'm a musician, and got hired to sing at an annual family Jarts tournament this past summer. Fun day, no one got impaled.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:05 AM   #59
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Box stores get away with it because most of it can be used for live stock. Salt for cows corn for chickens etc. It's always going to be an issue one way or another. If someone wants to skate the system they will find a way. It's our duty when we find this happening to turn it in and let DEC sort it out.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:26 AM   #60
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Yep...can't use salt licks or bait in NY, but the sporting goods stores can sell it.
Is it legal to put out salt/mineral licks for the deer's benefit in the springtime say?
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