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Old 12-12-2018, 09:27 AM   #61
gmorin71
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Guys,

I live in NJ and tried trout fishing once on the Flathead up near the Delaware Water Gap. Was having no luck. Then a guy and his son came along in his SUV and told me I was doing it wrong. The DEC truck full of trout to stock the river was due any minute, and I should have the same food as bait that the trout about to be released had been used to eating. Told me after the initial shock of being dumped, the trout immediately strike what they know. Sure enough the truck appeared trailed by a long line of SUV's full of guys ready to jump at every dump. My new found pal told me he had his limit in 15 minutes using the technique he had just described the year before, and he offered me some of his bait. I declined.

Haven't fished the Flathead since.

Skid


what a disheartening story. I, sadly, have witnessed similar events. I've always thought that something should be done to delay the initial "slaughter." let the fish spread out, get acclimated and then allow fishing. But who am I, either way it sucks the way NY does it.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:20 AM   #62
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Is it legal to put out salt/mineral licks for the deer's benefit in the springtime say?
No. It is not legal.....year round.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:42 AM   #63
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Is it legal to put out salt/mineral licks for the deer's benefit in the springtime say?
Why would conditioning an animal to something unnatural that could go away when you stop putting it out, and reduce the animal's ability to find its own, be beneficial to the animal?
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:13 AM   #64
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what a disheartening story. I, sadly, have witnessed similar events. I've always thought that something should be done to delay the initial "slaughter." let the fish spread out, get acclimated and then allow fishing. But who am I, either way it sucks the way NY does it.
In NJ, many streams have stocking day closures. The waters that allow fishing the same day as stocking are usually marginal trout waters that are managed as "put and take". It is comical.......I knew of a "fisherman" who followed a stocking truck and fished immediately after the stocking. He caught a 20" brood stock brookie and had it mounted.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:18 PM   #65
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In NJ, many streams have stocking day closures. The waters that allow fishing the same day as stocking are usually marginal trout waters that are managed as "put and take". It is comical.......I knew of a "fisherman" who followed a stocking truck and fished immediately after the stocking. He caught a 20" brood stock brookie and had it mounted.
hahaha unreal
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:53 PM   #66
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Is it legal to put out salt/mineral licks for the deer's benefit in the springtime say?
Not legal unless one obtains a permit from DEC first:
https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7197.html
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:14 PM   #67
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Years ago the DEC offered tours in the spring of deer wintering yards, where deer had congregated and concentrated during the winter, often in stands of hemlock trees. I don't know if that is done any more. Usually there were several deer carcasses where they had died due to malnutrition. They will feed on hemlock as a last resort but it offers little nutrition for them. Cracking the bones to look at the jellified marrow was indication of starvation. All in nature's way of making the survivors stronger.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:58 PM   #68
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Why would conditioning an animal to something unnatural that could go away when you stop putting it out, and reduce the animal's ability to find its own, be beneficial to the animal?
Chronic Wasting disease Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a contagious neurological disease affecting deer, elk and moose. It causes a characteristic spongy degeneration of the brains of infected animals resulting in emaciation, abnormal behavior, loss of bodily functions and death.

CWD belongs to a group of diseases known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs). Within this family of diseases, there are several other variants that affect domestic animals: scrapie, which has been identified in domestic sheep and goats for more than 200 years, bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle (also known as ďmad cow diseaseĒ), and transmissible mink encephalopathy in farmed mink.
Several rare human diseases are also TSEs. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) occurs naturally in about one out of every one million people worldwide. Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (v-CJD) has been associated with the large-scale outbreak of BSE in cattle herds in Great Britain.

It is not known exactly how CWD is transmitted. The infectious agent may be passed in feces, urine or saliva. Transmission is thought to be lateral (from animal to animal). Although maternal transmission (from mother to fetus) may occur, it appears to be relatively unimportant in maintaining epidemics. The minimal incubation period between infection and development of clinical disease appears to be approximately 16 months. The maximal incubation period is unknown, as is the point at which shedding of the CWD agent begins during the prolonged course of infection.

Because CWD infectious agents are extremely resistant in the environment, transmission may be both direct and indirect. Concentrating deer and elk in captivity or by artificial feeding probably increases the likelihood of both direct and indirect transmission between individuals. Contaminated pastures appear to have served as sources of infection in some CWD epidemics. The apparent persistence of the infectious agents in contaminated environments represents a significant obstacle to eradication of CWD from either captive or free-ranging cervid populations.
The movement of live animals is one of the greatest risk factors in spreading the disease into new areas. Natural movements of wild deer and elk contribute to the spread of the disease, and human-aided transportation of both captive and wild animals greatly exacerbates this risk factor. The apparent spread of CWD between captive and wild cervids is a matter of hot debate. Although strong circumstantial evidence suggests that CWD has spread from positive captive elk to wild cervids in some instances, it may never be proven which group of animals represents the source of infection. It is likely that the disease has been passed in both directions (from captive to wild animals, and from wild to captive animals).
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:22 PM   #69
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It is noteworthy that most of these reported baiting violations are in downstate areas that border or are near New Jersey, where baiting is allowed (or so I am told by some of the "wonderfully ethical" fishers that come from NJ to " harvest" salmon in the Salmon River.) I have to assume that with a high population density and a too large deer herd (measured by things like number of motor vehicle accidents), the goal is to get the hunters and deer out of the woods quickly, so fair chase goes out the window.
Here are a couple reports from today:
Perfect Timing - Ontario County
On Nov. 21, Lt. Aaron Gordon was driving past a residence in the town of Manchester when he observed a deer hanging in the garage. As the ECO pulled into the driveway to check the tag, a shot rang out from behind the house. Lt. Gordon encountered the homeowner and asked if he heard the gunshot. The homeowner said he believed it must have been one of his neighbors hunting in the woods behind his house. Lt. Gordon walked behind the house and discovered a shooting lane cut in the brush, perfectly aligned with one of the residence's windows. There were two large piles of corn and a dead, eight-point buck approximately 40 yards from the first corn pile. ECO Kevin Thomas responded to assist Lt. Gordon. The homeowner admitted to shooting the deer from the window of his house. The buck was confiscated and tickets were issued for discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a house, hunting deer over bait, illegal taking of protected wildlife, and taking deer in excess of the bag limit.

Big Bucks over Bait - Herkimer and Oneida Counties
On Nov. 30, several complainants called ECO Ben Tabor about a buck suspected of being taken over bait in the town of Ohio that had been entered in a local big buck contest. ECO Tabor determined where the deer had been shot after finding a large bait pile with the gut pile next to it. The ECO interviewed the suspect, who admitted to taking the buck illegally. The deer was seized as evidence and summons were issued for hunting over a pre-established bait pile and the illegal taking of a deer.

On Dec. 2, ECO John Gates received a call from an informant stating that a large buck had been killed by a suspect that had posted pictures on Facebook of him feeding deer close to his camp. As the officer pulled onto the property, he noticed piles of alfalfa and corn. The hunter claimed he had shot the deer halfway back into his 100-acre parcel. Officer Gates followed sled tracks to a gut pile within 30 yards of the bait. The man admitted to shooting the deer and was charged with illegal taking of deer, hunting over bait, and carrying the tags of another person. The deer was seized as evidence and the charges are returnable to Forestport Town Court.

There are bozo's everywhere....
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:12 PM   #70
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Anybody remember the Deer Man? There was a video about him feeding deer in the winter. Not sure, but I think it was near Forked Lake. A friend of mine who worked on that video showed me some of the footage a few years back.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:56 AM   #71
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Why would conditioning an animal to something unnatural that could go away when you stop putting it out, and reduce the animal's ability to find its own, be beneficial to the animal?
Well I wouldn't do it myself, but some people, who abhor the killing of any animal, put out feed/salt for observation purposes.
Personally I think the deer population is too large and the forest suffers from it.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:02 AM   #72
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Well I wouldn't do it myself, but some people, who abhor the killing of any animal, put out feed/salt for observation purposes.
Personally I think the deer population is too large and the forest suffers from it.
Come and spend one season here in the northern Adirondacks hunting and you might change your mind. Granted in some area of the southern zone there are lots of deer but not here. Not that I see baiting as a good thing or something we should allow but we dont have the deer
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:29 AM   #73
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Come and spend one season here in the northern Adirondacks hunting and you might change your mind. Granted in some area of the southern zone there are lots of deer but not here. Not that I see baiting as a good thing or something we should allow but we dont have the deer
Yeah I hear you. I hunt the North country. Try to do an overnight camping/hunting trip each year ( didn't make it this year). I've been hunting the North country for 35 years. I've been successful but few times, skunked most times. But still look forward to getting up there each year.
You are right, I should of specified southern tier.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:36 AM   #74
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Personally I think the deer population is too large and the forest suffers from it.
My vehicles suffer from it too. As careful as I can be, always scanning the roadside, they still manage to jump out to cross at the most inopportune times. Damage to my car is no stranger. Twice they have t-bone hit me broadside by launching out from roadside trees as i passed by, with no hope of avoidance. Here in the western Adirondacks I see deer almost daily in the fields and near or on the roads. There is one cut cornfield on the way to work where I have at times lost count with more than 30 deer feeding in the open there and in a nearby pasture.

A couple of weeks ago I was following a large construction dump truck, going at highway speed when a deer decided it could dart across the road to beat the truck. After I saw it leap from the shoulder onto the road, it was a square on grill hit. All I saw was a spray of blood mist surrounding the truck as the driver never had a millisecond to even tap its brakes. I then had to swerve as what was left of the mangled carcass came at me from under the truck. Turkeys seem to be much smarter and though they are very commonly seen here, I never see dead turkeys on th roadside like I see deer. Turkeys seem to know to get out of the road and to not cross when a car approaches. I am waiting for the Darwin effect to genetically teach the deer about the danger of roads.

Don't even talk to me about the persistent annual herd that considers my garden and budding trees as free for them to dine on. Giant destructive rodents is all they are.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:43 AM   #75
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OK, I’ll bite. If baiting and placing minerals is so morally, ethically, and biologically damaging to the deer, why is it legal in most states and Canadian Provence’s ?

These other wildlife agencies employ trained wildlife biologists, are they all wrong ? as a resident of NY my whole life, I / we all know how disfunctional and screwed up NYS government is. Does NY have a monopoly on the best all knowing wildlife biologists ? I think not.

And, spreading disease at feeding stations is a weak argument. Renowned deer Biologist Dr Grant Woods, told me, that he believes CWD is naturally occuring, has been here forever, and is already in every state, and just hasn’t been detected yet.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:59 AM   #76
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2 deer in the Adirondacks, one moose in New Hampshire.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:36 AM   #77
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There are bozo's everywhere....
True dat!

Uncle!
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:09 PM   #78
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OK, Iíll bite. If baiting and placing minerals is so morally, ethically, and biologically damaging to the deer, why is it legal in most states and Canadian Provenceís ?
"Of the 50, 22 states have legalized the use of deer baits either in selected parts or in the entire state. On the other hand, the remaining 28 states do not allow deer baiting. 14 of the 22 states that allow deer baiting allow it state wide while the remaining 8 only allow the practice in specific parts."
https://outdoorever.com/deer-baiting-laws/

https://www.deerhuntersclub.com/tips...hitetail-deer/

Can't speak for what is considered fair chase in Canada, it's a foreign country. Suffice it to say, there is a lot of debate on this issue, but it is not considered fair chase, or legal, in New York State.
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:27 PM   #79
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Can't speak for what is considered fair chase in Canada, it's a foreign country. Suffice it to say, there is a lot of debate on this issue, but it is not considered fair chase, or legal, in New York State.[/



So again the elites in NY, decide what is fair chase, ethical and moral ?

Iíd bet many deer taken in the 22 states you mention that are taken over bait, are entered into the P&Y, and B&C Clubs.
And we havenít even started talking Black Bears.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:21 PM   #80
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So again the elites in NY, decide what is fair chase, ethical and moral ?

Iíd bet many deer taken in the 22 states you mention that are taken over bait, are entered into the P&Y, and B&C Clubs.
And we havenít even started talking Black Bears.
I think we can all pretty much agree that shooting deer standing over a bait pile in your back yard, and doing so from your open living room window while sitting in a La-Z-Boy is probably not ethical. Comfortable and convenient, yes, but not ethical.
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