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Old 10-05-2017, 12:02 PM   #21
Bounder45
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I was just at an R5 Fish & Wildlife Management Board meeting with a DEC biologist two weeks ago. The moose study is ongoing and there is hope that an accurate assessment of the population and knowledge of overall health of Adirondack moose will be the outcome, along with an eventual management plan. They've collared and are GPS tracking several cows to track reproduction.

They said on a number of occasions the moose here are in decent health compared to parts of Canada, Minnesota and other Northeast states. I don't know if moose will ever be hunted in this state, and some folks think the study is for that purpose, but I've heard no suggestion of it. I do know it won't happen unless there is accurate data on the moose population.
I'll be interested in seeing the results of that assessment. I do think the implementation of a hunting season is only a matter of time; so long as the species isn't listed on the Endangered Species Act and the state biologists deem the #'s are robust enough to sustain hunting, the state agencies usually default to enacting some sort of hunting season. Given the limited habitat, which limits the Moose #'s, that season would likely be built around a lottery system and strict quota management of some sort.

Edit: By the way, is there a website that lists when those meetings will take place?

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Old 10-05-2017, 03:58 PM   #22
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By the way, is there a website that lists when those meetings will take place?
Here is DEC's moose page: http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6964.html#Research

The meetings I'm referring to are not actually moose meetings, they are just the quarterly Fish and Wildlife Management Board Meetings held in Region 5, and which should be held in every DEC region.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:42 AM   #23
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A hunting season is a long way off (20-30 years at least) and would be something like 50 permits. NH has a population of approximately ~4 times the ADK population and released only 51 permits this season. Back of the envelope math says that if the ADK population is ~800 animals and if they first started entering the ADKs in the early 1980s/late 1970s, then the population is growing at around 7%. That would, using a basic straight growth rate, put them at around a population of 4,000 animals by 2050.

A huntable population would be nice source revenue for the NYSDEC through permit sales and a lottery system (say $50/entry + $250 resident permit fee + $1,000 non-resident fees and 10% of tags to non-residents). NH gets about 10,000 applicants for their moose lottery at $25/per entry (which is cheap comparable to other states). For NY, 50 tags could net $500-600k annually for moose studies and management.

But, still, it's a long way off and a lot depends on the ecosystem (how many animals it can support).
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:02 AM   #24
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I'm not sure the DEC really wants a huntable moose population in NY. If they did, they could easily excelerated the growth of the current moose population, by getting some cow moose somewhere, (maybe NFLD) and releasing them into NY. They talked of doing this 30 years ago but for some reason decided not to.
There would be much opposition from having a huntable moose herd from anti-hunting and animal rights groups, and there would have to be legislation passed to allow it. I think some at the DEC don't want the hassle .
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:27 AM   #25
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Yesterday's hike as an example ...while it is still a rare event for me to actually see an Adirondack moose, I can now hike certain paths and trails and 100% of the time see fresh moose tracks. Perhaps many are left in the evening. A game cam left on the trail would certainly record moose but it would also be attractive to steal by hikers, hunters, illegal atv riders.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:44 AM   #26
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Fly Rodder....Two years ago in February I believe, I encountered at the end of Sabattis Rd. in the township of Long Lake a crew of DEC biologist, helpers and a 2 man helicopter(crew). They were going to radio collar moose this particular day(they actually collared 2 cows). I talked with the head Biologist and he told me that with the growing population there could be a moose season closer than you would think. He didn't elaborate any further, but for him to make this statement I thought Hmmm, could there be plans for a season within 5 yrs...maybe 10 years? He was very happy with all the info I gave him on sightings and such on our property on Robinwood Park club, I myself have seen now 8 moose(including a cow with twin calves) on our property, and now see moose sign I would say nearly every time I venture into the woods/roads.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:14 PM   #27
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Sooner or later there is going to be a moose/vehicle fatality in NY. If/when that starts happening regularly, you can be sure an effort for a moose hunt will be made.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:44 PM   #28
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A hunting season is a long way off (20-30 years at least) and would be something like 50 permits. NH has a population of approximately ~4 times the ADK population and released only 51 permits this season. Back of the envelope math says that if the ADK population is ~800 animals and if they first started entering the ADKs in the early 1980s/late 1970s, then the population is growing at around 7%. That would, using a basic straight growth rate, put them at around a population of 4,000 animals by 2050.

A huntable population would be nice source revenue for the NYSDEC through permit sales and a lottery system (say $50/entry + $250 resident permit fee + $1,000 non-resident fees and 10% of tags to non-residents). NH gets about 10,000 applicants for their moose lottery at $25/per entry (which is cheap comparable to other states). For NY, 50 tags could net $500-600k annually for moose studies and management.

But, still, it's a long way off and a lot depends on the ecosystem (how many animals it can support).
Considering that NY's Moose population went from a negligible # to an estimated 500-800 in 3 decades, and considering that there is just as much Moose habitat for NY as there is in NH, I think we are much closer to a legal Moose hunting season than what you predict.

Also, the whole reason for this ongoing assessment is that the DEC wants to develop a more accurate estimation of the Moose #'s. It's too soon to know whether this new assessment is going to yield a population # that is higher or lower than the current assessment, but most of these wildlife estimates are inherently conservative (which serves as a worst case safety mechanism of sorts). I would not be the least bit surprised if this population study yields a higher # than the currently accepted estimate.

I'm optimistic that this study will produce a good, accurate understanding of NY's Moose population and that the DEC does want to allow multiple forms of recreation in regards to Moose (to include hunting). As you point out, a regulated hunting season would bring in additional funding, which could be redirected right back into Moose conservation efforts. I did notice in the DEC's website that an effort to accelerate the Moose re-population via importing new individuals was rejected by the DEC; I'd be interested in knowing the reason for that decision. Nonetheless, I think NY's Moose are well on their way to having a management plan developed and implemented, which should be cause for celebration by all parties since it does indicate a robust and healthy population.

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Here is DEC's moose page: http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6964.html#Research

The meetings I'm referring to are not actually moose meetings, they are just the quarterly Fish and Wildlife Management Board Meetings held in Region 5, and which should be held in every DEC region.
Much appreciated Buck!

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Old 10-07-2017, 08:15 PM   #29
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I don't know but have to believe that there is a concern about moose vehicle accidents.
On the other hand imagine harvesting a Moose and the windfall of meat that it would provide? I say bring back the mammoths and see if we spare a little room for another species.
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Old 10-08-2017, 06:33 PM   #30
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Sooner or later there is going to be a moose/vehicle fatality in NY. If/when that starts happening regularly, you can be sure an effort for a moose hunt will be made.
Heard from my Grandmother yesterday that a bull moose was hit and killed in Johnsburg last week. She said by the time the DEC ranger could get to the accident site someone had removed part of the rack.

http://poststar.com/news/local/moose...195ad4234.html
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Old 10-08-2017, 08:35 PM   #31
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Heard from my Grandmother yesterday that a bull moose was hit and killed in Johnsburg last week. She said by the time the DEC ranger could get to the accident site someone had removed part of the rack.

http://poststar.com/news/local/moose...195ad4234.html
Yes, there's a bunch of facebook photos from this. Where my buddy lives up in Maine, you don't drive at night if you don't have to
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:52 AM   #32
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If the Adirondack moose population eventually equals northern New England's pre-tick decline, I would think there is an economic tourism opportunity far greater than a limited moose hunt. If moose can be seen at dawn and dusk in concentrated areas from water or roads, think of what New England had pre-tick reduction. If you have ever been to Island Pond, Vt. Pittsburg, Berlin, Gorham, or overall White Mtns. NH, Moosehead Lake and Rangeley Maine, you know that moose tours, lodging, restaurants, shops, etc have benefited from this majestic mammal. There is a greater population of people interested in seeing a moose vs. killing one. I would be interested in the scientific modeling on what will happen to the moose population if untouched by arrival of the winter tick, worse episodes of brainworm, or warming Adirondack temperatures since Adk moose are at the southern limit of their temperature habitat. (Ill refrain from labeling it "changing climate" no matter what the cause to keep politics out).
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:57 AM   #33
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Several years ago, some motorcyclist nearly hit a moose on the Taconic Parkway SE of the Capital District. Apparently had just enough time to dump his bike and slide under it. Moose go wherever they feel like.
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Old 10-09-2017, 12:50 PM   #34
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There is a greater population of people interested in seeing a moose vs. killing one.
I think there would be an argument to be made about that. I'm sure in an opinion poll, lots of people, in the abstract, would say that they would like to encounter a moose in the wild. However, fewer would be willing to part with money to do so. How about adding an 11% tax on camping gear and canoes for wildlife management? How about a yearly fee of $100+ to hike and photograph animals in NY? Hunters also contribute to the economy the same way as non-hunting tourists with hotel/motel stays, lodging, and restaurant meals.

The North American model of conservation has been incredibly successful at restoring populations of large and small game animals as well as ancillary species. So , how about both? It's not the 1800s anymore. Animal harvests through hunting are tightly controlled and market hunting is no longer legal. A limited moose hunt would not result in the disappearance of animals, but to the contrary as indicated by history of the last century (e.g., elk, whitetail deer, geese, turkeys, etc.). And there would remain a sizable population of animals for hikers, boaters, and campers to watch and photograph.

But, again, I think until there is solid data regarding moose populations and growth rates it is very far off before a legal moose hunt is even on the table for actual discussion.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:47 PM   #35
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Fly Rodder, well said!

I'm perhaps a bit more optimistic than you on how soon we will see a Moose season in NY, but I'm glad there are others on here who understand the value of hunter-based conservation.
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:04 PM   #36
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Did timber harvest job inspection today on the Corrigan Tract on Tug Hill, and saw a fresh moose track in one of the skid trails.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:24 PM   #37
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Heading up tomorrow but a week and a half ago I had Moose tracks right in front of Camp. I set up game camera again. Can't wait to see if I have pictures. For that matter I can't wait to see if I have a camera. Last year at this time I had one stolen.

I wish I could find a picture taken 3 years ago. I had two computers die and lost it. At the time a bear had ripped my porch screen. The picture was of a Moose sticking her head underneath flapping screen looking onto my porch. Secluded and a mile and a half from a main road and I still can't get any privacy!
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