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Old 10-23-2017, 07:01 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle View Post
... the legions of unprepared instagrammers ...
Is that a new stereotype? Like back in the day when there were legions of "unprepared hippies"?
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:32 PM   #62
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I shared the article for discussion and not for debate. As with any subject posted on any forum some people turn it into a right and wrong thing. I dont see any way to stop it. But seeing how many people have just as many thought on how to handle this issue, Im sure it will always be an issue.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:39 PM   #63
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I shared the article for discussion and not for debate...I dont see any way to stop it...
Nothing wrong with discussing & debating ideas & ways that might help lower the numbers, instead of doing nothing while those numbers continue to increase year after year.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:18 PM   #64
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I drove to the Yukon territory and back this past summer. For Canada's 150th birthday anniversary celebration this year, entry into all parks is free, I have a free tag hanging on my mirror so park attendants just waved me through. In the Adirondacks, if you simply want to hike a trailhead or paddle a lake accessible from a campground park, that is free if you tell the gate attendant of your intentions.
Really? I once tried to camp at Lake Eaton and after being told it was full at the gate, I asked if I could just have a look at the lake and the "gate-keepers" said "No!" I just wanted to look at the lake and campground for a possible future visit. That place was crossed off my list forever because of that.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:22 PM   #65
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I assume you get all kinds of gatekeepers. I had no problem when asking to hike the trail on the back side of the lake.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:14 PM   #66
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I shared the article for discussion and not for debate. As with any subject posted on any forum some people turn it into a right and wrong thing.
There's a very fine line between discussion and debate. People are going to have differing opinions on a topic such as this. I don't think there is a right or a wrong. The debate one could say has been ongoing since the times of Murray's Fools, as they were called back in the day.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:55 AM   #67
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Really? I once tried to camp at Lake Eaton and after being told it was full at the gate, I asked if I could just have a look at the lake and the "gate-keepers" said "No!" I just wanted to look at the lake and campground for a possible future visit. That place was crossed off my list forever because of that.
Were you trying to drive in to just look, or walk?
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:01 PM   #68
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As a New York State taxpayer, I am happy to have some of my tax money used to keep the trails free and (relatively) safe. One of the problems(?) with the Adirondacks is that there are few trailheads where people could purchase maps (the ADK Loj HPIC is the celebrated exception). I hope that the increased popularity of this region, due to the Governor's promotion, will result in more willingness to spend public money here.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:12 PM   #69
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I hope that the increased popularity of this region, due to the Governor's promotion, will result in more willingness to spend public money here.
New in town? ha.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:15 PM   #70
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As a New York State taxpayer, I am happy to have some of my tax money used to keep the trails free and (relatively) safe. One of the problems(?) with the Adirondacks is that there are few trailheads where people could purchase maps (the ADK Loj HPIC is the celebrated exception). I hope that the increased popularity of this region, due to the Governor's promotion, will result in more willingness to spend public money here.
last thing i want is more visitor centers at trail heads,
i just want a dirt lot to park my car and thats it, cheap to build, cheap to maintain
plenty of maps online and at ranger stations
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:33 PM   #71
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Where are there ranger stations, except at visitor centers? On line maps? - that's part of the problem because often they are wrong. Having privys or porta-potties at trailheads should help reduce the poop-in-the-woods problem. However, they cost money.
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:44 PM   #72
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The Ranger Stations are circulating in the atmosphere as soot, from when they were burned in the 1970's.

This is a different era. The increased number of users and the increased proportion of unprepared users is not going to change, and requires more active management. And MTV is right, it does cost money. Sure, all I need is a place to park my car, and I'm off and running in the woods. But I am not the only type of user. It's important for planning to be aware of the user population.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:45 PM   #73
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There's a DEC Interior Outpost ("ranger station") along Johns Brook. I passed it a few times this year and it was always vacant. Anyway, the part that I found entertaining was the sign posted on its front door. In the event of an emergency, one is advised to call the DEC's central dispatch (phone number is displayed). This is what limited budgets look like. I don't even think there's cell service available there.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:53 PM   #74
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There's a DEC Interior Outpost ("ranger station") along Johns Brook. I passed it a few times this year and it was always vacant.
luck of the draw! i have had contact with some sort of DEC employee both of my last two times passing by. the first someone came out of the cabin and the second they were on trail just before the cabin clearing brush. both times i was asked the general preparation questions - route, headlamp, water, microspikes, etc - and wished a happy hike.

for those of us coming north on 87 the high peaks rest area between exits 29/30 always seemed disappointing to me as an information source. the DEC (or ADK, 46'rs, etc) could probably outfit a nice display with some useful web links for a pretty minimal cost.
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:08 PM   #75
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There's a DEC Interior Outpost ("ranger station") along Johns Brook. I passed it a few times this year and it was always vacant. Anyway, the part that I found entertaining was the sign posted on its front door. In the event of an emergency, one is advised to call the DEC's central dispatch (phone number is displayed). This is what limited budgets look like. I don't even think there's cell service available there.
Same thing at the station at Cedar River Flow. I haven't met a ranger there in years.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:29 PM   #76
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The increased number of users and the increased proportion of unprepared users is not going to change, and requires more active management.
I don't believe this premise that more hikers per capita are entering the words unprepared has been substantiated.

As Neil has posted a couple of times in this thread, this has been going on for a long time and isn't likely to wane anytime soon.

Things nearly always work out just fine. TB has posted stats showing just how rare a rescue is.

It's interesting how passionate people are about this issue. Yes, people that don't share our values are going to visit the park. Some of them are going to get in over their heads and require a rescue.

And we can start threads about how stupid they are ...
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:36 PM   #77
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I'm not suggesting that these folks are stupid - just unaware or uneducated. But if we as a State continue to heavily promote coming here to play, and then we don't allocate the resources to maintain the resource and educate the users, it is WE who are stupid.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:19 PM   #78
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luck of the draw! i have had contact with some sort of DEC employee both of my last two times passing by.
Definitely luck of the draw! I passed by August 13 and September 13 and no one was present. Maybe there's a thing with number 13?

I still think anyone attempting to call DEC dispatch from there will be SOL.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:44 PM   #79
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Same thing at the station at Cedar River Flow. I haven't met a ranger there in years.
I see ECO's and/or Rangers every now and then while driving down Cedar River Rd. The checkpoint stations have been empty for a while now, and honestly I don't see a need to staff them given the limited traffic that goes into that area. Just because you don't see a Ranger or other DEC personnel doesn't mean that they aren't out patrolling.


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I don't believe this premise that more hikers per capita are entering the words unprepared has been substantiated.
I would think based on the simple trend of increasing hiker #'s alone, rescues are more common now than they were in years past. That said I'm sure there is a site or document for NY that would demonstrate those statistics.


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Things nearly always work out just fine. TB has posted stats showing just how rare a rescue is.
How rare is "rare?"

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It's interesting how passionate people are about this issue. Yes, people that don't share our values are going to visit the park. Some of them are going to get in over their heads and require a rescue.

And we can start threads about how stupid they are ...
I'll be the frank one here and say that yes, in fact, some people who go out and get into a situation that requires outside assistance are demonstrating a lack of planning and critical thinking. Not all, but some. Let's be honest about that instead of politely beating around the bush. I think they should be rescued all the same, but if it's taxpayer dollars bailing them out, I think a fine or even some community service would be warranted to discourage other people from making the same error of judgement.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:13 PM   #80
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I see ECO's and/or Rangers every now and then while driving down Cedar River Rd. The checkpoint stations have been empty for a while now, and honestly I don't see a need to staff them given the limited traffic that goes into that area. Just because you don't see a Ranger or other DEC personnel doesn't mean that they aren't out patrolling.
Right -- I just said that I've not seen anyone at the cabins/trailhead.

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I would think based on the simple trend of increasing hiker #'s alone, rescues are more common now than they were in years past. That said I'm sure there is a site or document for NY that would demonstrate those statistics.

How rare is "rare?"
Apparently, quoting the article on npr.org, they mounted "roughly one SAR operation a day last year and keeping an even busier pace this year."

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/25/559987...d-for-the-wild
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