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Old 12-04-2012, 01:32 PM   #1
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Graph of Temperatures over last 10,000 years

Here is a nice graph of Greenland temperatures since the last Glacier.
The scale at the bottom of graph is number of years measured from the year 2000. Blue line is average temperatures. The Red portion is roughly last 150 years. Green line indicates trend.
Pretty interesting.

http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graph...-10000-new.png
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:03 PM   #2
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If you don't believe it find out the temp trends since records have been kept in the forest/countryside. Our "climate crisis" might better be called "Global City Heating".
Rome flourished during their warm period, eating grain grown in North Africa, an area denominated by deserts today. Some have argued that one reason the Roman Empire fell was that they could not adapt to a cooling climate.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:00 PM   #3
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I consider this graph like a Rorschach test. Regardless of what side you're on you will see what you want to see to confirm your position.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:49 PM   #4
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What that graph tells us quite clearly is that they must have been burning fossil fuels like crazy back in the Minoan warming days.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:16 PM   #5
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Yes well, The Mycenaean Oil Embargo made short work of that.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #6
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From the Washington Post:
The big climate question: Will the world build 1,200 new coal plants?

Posted by Brad Plumer on November 20, 2012 at 9:09 am



Climate scientists have sometimes warned that it could prove impossible to avoid high levels of global warming unless the world stops building new coal-fired plants. But thatís not a simple proposition. Across the globe, there are at least 1,199 coal plants now on the drawing board, according to a new report from the World Resources Institute.


Many of these proposed new plants are in China and India, which account for 76 percent of proposed capacity. Turkey and Russia also have big plans. And a growing number of coal plants are being proposed for developing countries such as Cambodia, Guatemala and Uzbekistan, nations that are looking to cut-rate sources of energy to fuel economic growth.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #7
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So we can export more coal!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...sias-coal-use/
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #8
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Maybe an answer is move to India or China and protest the building of coal plants there, for those who think protesting is the "a way to make a difference".
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:20 PM   #9
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I'm totally against it. The more coal fired plants they put online each year the less and less I get in my stocking every year for Christmas. If they keep it up, pretty soon I'll get nothing at all.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:54 PM   #10
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Because of pollution restrictions and cheap gas due to fracking there will be very few new coal plants built in the US and many retired.

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=7330
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:48 PM   #11
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Being that China and India were not included in the Kyoto Protocol in 1997 there is little that can be done about the coal plants. I read that several more countries have dropped out so close to 66% of the worlds greenhouse gases produced are from countries not part of the agreement.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:58 PM   #12
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That's why Kyoto was nonsense. It was just a cover story for wealth redistribution. If US had signed, we may as well just have written checks to India and China for $1T each.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #13
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It is ironic that China is maneuvering to be the world leader in both research and manufacturing of solar energy technologies.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:57 AM   #14
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Here is what I see from the graph. Current temperatures are increasing. This is well within the 10,000 year variation. The overall trend is down so temperatures in the near future might still rise but eventually will head back down.

Anyone who draws conclusions on 150 years of temperatures is misguided.
That is like trying to conclude a yearly weather trend from examining the last 5 days. Doesn't make sense to me. Also doesn't make sense when you are measuring temperatures from a down period. The Little ice age ended in 1850. What did you expect to see temperatures going down? Of course not.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
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That's why Kyoto was nonsense. It was just a cover story for wealth redistribution. If US had signed, we may as well just have written checks to India and China for $1T each.
Right on target. The UN has been pushing this agenda for years under the guise of saving the planet and polar bears and such. Looking at that graph - it is obvious that the planet AND polar bears did just fine through that 10,000 year period when warming was almost, quite literally, off the charts.

Polar bears have apparently been around from between 600,000 and 5,000,000 years (and apparently suffered no ill effects) according to:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/sc...-coupling.html

But, unfortunately, this UN agenda is probably going to be pushed through one way or another anyway - carbon taxes on products, or other such schemes.
We are, after all, at the mercy of many, many tinpot 3rd world dictators and others at the UN who rob their own countries blind - and then will "vote" (a concept abbhorent to them in their own countries) to punish the wealth-producing nations.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #16
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Its amazing that some contries still agree to participate in the UN. The USA and Canada included. Why would you want to involve yourself with an organization that gives equal voice to countries like Iran? I'd say that you shouldn't be able to belong to the UN if your country participates in outrageous human rights abuses like Iran does. That the rest of the world should shun you and not give you a voice until you conform to the standards the rest of civilization has accepted for the treatment of fellow human beings. We only legitimize thier beleifs and actions by allowing them to participate as equals at the UN. If the UN won't throw tyrants out, civilized nations should just withdraw in protest.

Well, thats my UN rant. I don't have a climate change rant. Some months it snows some months its hot out. Thats change right?
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityboy View Post
Here is what I see from the graph. Current temperatures are increasing. This is well within the 10,000 year variation. The overall trend is down so temperatures in the near future might still rise but eventually will head back down.

Anyone who draws conclusions on 150 years of temperatures is misguided.
That is like trying to conclude a yearly weather trend from examining the last 5 days. Doesn't make sense to me. Also doesn't make sense when you are measuring temperatures from a down period. The Little ice age ended in 1850. What did you expect to see temperatures going down? Of course not.
Okay, I'll play devil's advocate.

Everything is relative.

We humans are living today, not in the past. Any climate change is a change to our environment today. Currently, global temperatures are warming and those warming conditions may be affecting our lives today. For example, the rise in global temperatures causes sea levels to rise which causes coastal areas to flood. Does it matter that global temperatures in the present are cooler than they were thousands of years ago? Of course not.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #18
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Willie, you can't draw any conclusions that temperatures will continue to rise in the future based on the fact that they are rising now. The Little Ice age ended in 1850. From that low I would expect temperatures to rise and ice caps to melt just like they've done over thousands/millions of years.
I realize that 150 years data might seem like a lot but it is only 1.5% of the 10,000 year graph. Most geologists would probably say the same thing to me in using only 10,000 years when the earth is billions of years old.
Based on the graph I would conclude that temperatures will rise but at some point in the future turn back around and decline. We are heading for another ice age regardless what we do.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityboy View Post
I would expect temperatures to rise and ice caps to melt just like they've done over thousands/millions of years.
Me, too. And coastal areas, today, will flood and people that live there will not be happy.

Quote:
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Based on the graph I would conclude that temperatures will rise but at some point in the future turn back around and decline.
It is of little consequence to people in threatened coastal areas, today, that temperatures will decline "at some point in the future."

Quote:
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Most geologists would probably say the same thing to me in using only 10,000 years when the earth is billions of years old.
I'm a school trained geologist (M.S.). If our concern is an academic exercise regarding fluctuations of global termperatures over geologic time, I agree. If our concern is near-term effects of this current period of global warming, I don't agree.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:04 PM   #20
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Me, too. And coastal areas, today, will flood and people that live there will not be happy.



It is of little consequence to people in threatened coastal areas, today, that temperatures will decline "at some point in the future."



I'm a school trained geologist (M.S.). If our concern is an academic exercise regarding fluctuations of global termperatures over geologic time, I agree. If our concern is near-term effects of this current period of global warming, I don't agree.
Excellent, finally someone who knows what he is talking about! I'm a layman although I used to analyze data for the State. I've posted this graph on another site and got nothing.
Here is the site I got the graph from.
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/02/the...rature-swings/

The conclusions by the author seem plausible enough.

If you are asking what can be done to counteract rising waters now I'd say dunes or barriers in the short term and moving back inland in the future if it gets too bad. Indians use to have temporary camps along the ocean too. They are now under water. Shorelines change over time (eventually). There is nothing we can do to change that.
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