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Old 12-19-2005, 11:44 AM   #21
Gray Ghost
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From what I understand, some bogs can actually preserve bodies, so if your theory is correct, wouldn't one of those cadaver sniffing dogs be of use now? It is totally a shot in the dark, but I have seen those dogs on TV that are trained to locate human remains, and if I'm not mistaken, that goes for bodies that have been in the ground/water a very long time. But I would assume this would not be feasible for many reasons; cost, etc. Or maybe the dogs are quite as capable as I remember...it would be something though.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:07 PM   #22
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I was getting out of SAR dogs about 12 years ago when the SAR dog "community" really started getting into cadaver and evidence detection, and I haven't kept up on the advances. I do know when NYSP went in there in the '80s, they did have one of their body dogs with them, but still didn't locate the remains the hunters had found the previous fall.

Anything's possible, I suppose. Dogs can do some amazing things. 35 years, though, is a long time.

Hans
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:39 PM   #23
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douglas legg "lead" 22 years later

does anyone remember the incident in October 1993, during the search for Thomas Carlton? Teams were combing the area from the Adk Loj all the way down to Newcomb. On an island in the lake they discovered a large-ish bone. Based on its size, it was thought that the bone could have been the femur of a young boy. a thorough search was done of the immediate area. not sure if anything else was found, but as i recall from subsequent newspaper stories -- all of this is strictly from memory, so can't vouch for precision -- tests were done on the bone and it was inconclusive. From a deer perhaps(?) Another dead end.
There was another interesting discovery made during that search, on one of the High Peaks--unrelated to the bone--but that's for another discussion.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:56 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whooping crane
There was another interesting discovery made during that search, on one of the High Peaks--unrelated to the bone--but that's for another discussion.
Please share!!??
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Old 12-19-2005, 01:07 PM   #25
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Would you buy...

...a book about search, rescue and survival (historic, not instructional) in the Adirondacks? I know there are similar books about Yellowstone and Grand Canyon. Do you think there would be much interest in a "niche" title like that? I know people buy books about fire towers (Heck, I even bought one when I was back there.) but?

I keep saying "Some day I'm going to write a book." Maybe it's time to put my MS-Word where my mouth is and do it, particularly while guys like Pete Fish, Gary Hodgeson, Dave Ames, Ed Pierce, Jim Lord, (all rangers) Jim Suffolk, Ike Parkhurst (NYSP bloodhound handlers) Don Arner, Huey Parrow, Chuck Blount, (SAR volunteers) Dick Matzell and Hilary LeBlanc (ECOs) are still alive to tell the stories.

Maybe it's time for me to come back home.

Hans
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Old 12-19-2005, 01:38 PM   #26
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That could be a potentially good read. A few years back ADK Life had an article on Search and Rescue, and I found it be quite interesting, and I don't have any kind of background or anything like that in SAR. I remember the article telling about a team that was out on search and they stumbled across a marijuana field with armed guards sitting on the front porch of the cabin. The SAR team went to get the cops and by the time they returned the crop had been totally harvested and the cabin completely empty!
Those are the kinds of stories I find interesting. What kinds of things are out in those woods that no one has ever seen or heard about. Get busy Hans, I'd read it!
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:50 PM   #27
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Even though the Adirondack reading market is becoming increasingly cluttered, that book would definitely sell, and I would go so far as to say that when looking at the ADK section of local bookstores, a book of that nature is clearly missing. You obviously have some great connections, so why not get started? I started my first ADK-set novel over the summer and enjoy writing short fiction too. I'm definitely going to set my sights on writing a nonfiction ADK hiking/fishing type book (i will narrow the scope at some point) someday as well.

Barney Fowler's Adirondack Albums have a multitude of interesting stories, including an extensive chapter on Garrow. I don't think he mentions Douglas, though. Has anyone read the chapter about the man in chains or the piece about bigfoot at Indian Lake? Some intriguing stuff to say the least.

I may be missing some titles, for sure, but if you ask me THERE IS NOT an effective medium for sharing ADK SAR stories, both successful and unsuccessful. I honestly wonder how many people have never made it back or disappeared in the ADK wilderness. Maybe your book could tell us.
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:52 PM   #28
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Leg Bone

Does anyone else find it frustrating that with all of our forensic and DNA technology, we can't distinguish between a deer bone and what could be the femur of a young boy? Shouldn't they clearly be able to make that distinction today?
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
Barney Fowler's Adirondack Albums have a multitude of interesting stories, including an extensive chapter on Garrow. .
I don't have Fowler's books, but am familiar with them. I believe there is a picture of Trooper Jim Suffolk and his bloodhound leading cops on the trail of Garrow in that story. (Is my memory working right?)

Later,
Hans

PS If it mentions his name, it may call him "R.D." or "Ralph" Suffolk. "Jim" was a nickname.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:14 PM   #30
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I don't have the books here, but I think so.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:57 PM   #31
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gray ghost: that was 1993, a dozen years being a long time in terms of recent advancements in DNA technology. But i am going strictly from memory; someone in the parking lot may have been able to tell immediately that it was a deer bone. I cant remember exactly how it played out. But I do know that its discovery did prompt a major refocus on Legg and that island in Newcomb Lake.

adkdremn: didn't mean to dangle bait, but this "discovery" was a project someone had been working on. On state land. Nothing all the exciting. But imagine this person's surprise when 20 rangers decide to start a grid search a hundred yards from said "project."
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:40 PM   #32
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I don't have the books here, but I think so.

Gray Ghost I just took a look at your web site. It has a nice look. I noticed you had a reference to Jim Goodwin. How is he doing? About a year ago, the last I heard of him, he was doing poorly a friend reported he was in bad health. As I lost his address could not get a hold of him.
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Old 12-19-2005, 06:01 PM   #33
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Hans, that book is definitely a good idea. I find historical books fascinating. The more in depth, the better. That way the odds of the topic being thoroughly researched is better. Barbara McMartin's books are exemplary on this matter.

Now for your SAR book- great idea. Many people, including myself, read Tony Goodwin's accident report section first when the Adirondac magazine comes out. HIs analysis of the situation is very educational. Most accidents seem to come about from a group getting separated and/or not being prepared to spend a night out in the woods.

Sign me up for a copy!

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Old 12-19-2005, 06:33 PM   #34
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Okay!

I spoke to a few people this afternoon and they all agreed with all of you.

So I started in on the "Pilot Chapter" this afternoon.

I will keep you all posted.

Thanks for the inspiration and support!
Hans
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Old 12-19-2005, 06:33 PM   #35
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Trailpatrol's book

" would you buy ... " - ?!
Of course I would . There are hundreds active members only on this Forum . If 10% .. And libraries ...
That "historic" matirial is inalienably "instructional" too .
Good luck !
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
This story has long interested and saddened me. I was wondering if anyone had any info. or theories as to what might have happened. I'm especially interested in those who remember the ordeal, or are familiar with the Santanoni/Newcomb area.-GG
When I was certified in the DEC Wildlands Search Course many years ago, we discussed this story and I never forgot it. To this day when the topic comes up with some of my DEC friends (usually during another search), it is obviously frustrating as one of their few unsolved lost person mysteries.

An interesting bit of trivia... if you know how string is laid out during a type-3 search... 600 miles of it were strung out in this case. In the years since I recall numerous times when somebody found something they claimed to belong to the boy, but nothing ever came of it.
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:43 PM   #37
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Antler, I just got a xmas card from him (as you probably read on my blog). Jim was doing well in May '05 when my wife and I stumbled upon his home/camp. The details of this incident will soon be posted on my blog. Thanks for the compliments. Basically, it is just a little blog i started until i get my own site off the ground in early '06. It's ironic that Hans brought up writing a book, because in addition to my ADK journal, it will be a resource/info page for my fiction.
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Old 12-19-2005, 11:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail patrol
...a book about search, rescue and survival (historic, not instructional) in the Adirondacks? I know there are similar books about Yellowstone and Grand Canyon. Do you think there would be much interest in a "niche" title like that? I know people buy books about fire towers (Heck, I even bought one when I was back there.) but?

I keep saying "Some day I'm going to write a book." Maybe it's time to put my MS-Word where my mouth is and do it, particularly while guys like Pete Fish, Gary Hodges, Dave Ames, Ed Pierce, Jim Lord, (all rangers) Jim Suffolk, Ike Parkhurst (NYSP bloodhound handlers) Don Arner, Huey Parrow, Chuck Blount, (SAR volunteers) Dick Matzell and Hilary Leblanc (ECOs) are still alive to tell the stories.

Maybe it's time for me to come back home.

Hans
I think books about SAR "incidents" would be a great idea. Not just for the story about how someone was found or recovered, but WHY they had to be searched for in the first place. The reason they were lost...

In listening to many people, seeing people prepare for hiking and reading some of the posts from time to time, I see so many "little" things that are scoffed at, often by experienced hikers.

I often think that they feel that"other people" got lost because of something major or sheer ignorance. I would guess that to be true maybe 2% of the time. The other times is because of "little" things that went wrong, or poor decisions being made.

No one PLANS on getting lost or in trouble and usually the major things are always covered. it's always the "little thing" that got someone lost......or killed.

So I think that many of those stories Ned to be told, with emphasis on the REASON, as well as the result.
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Old 12-19-2005, 11:45 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
Antler, I just got a xmas card from him (as you probably read on my blog). Jim was doing well in May '05 when my wife and I stumbled upon his home/camp. The details of this incident will soon be posted on my blog. Thanks for the compliments. Basically, it is just a little blog i started until i get my own site off the ground in early '06. It's ironic that Hans brought up writing a book, because in addition to my ADK journal, it will be a resource/info page for my fiction.
Thanks I am glad to hear that Jim is a very special person.
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Old 01-05-2006, 08:58 PM   #40
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Do it Hans!
I'll give it to all my friends Christmas. I think books are the best gifts.

Off the subject..... Being from the Southwestern ADK's I had never heard the Lake Placid Story "Lady in the Lake".
Well, I stumbled upon the book this summer ( I'm a local library junkie) all about the Lady in the lake. I was mesmerized! I had to read everything on the story.
I read old police reports, newspaper article and even information from the womens university ( where she served as Dean).
Does anyone have any insight into the investigation?

I love mystery books--- what other mystery books are out there set in the Adirondacks?
I know the American Tragedy! I have read literally EVERYTHING on the Big Moose Murder. If anyone has questions about that one- feel free to e-mail me. I've been obsessed with that story since I was 10.
I found out when I was 10, that Chester Gillette ran through my backyard to escape the police. I have been obseesed ever since.

So, does anyone know of any other books? Thanks.
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