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Old 08-05-2010, 02:51 PM   #21
dpc34
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Met the young man today at EMS, this was not his first rodeo. From what I understand he finished 3rd in the Mountaineers annual race in the open class. A real nice young man who would not mention what he has done--A true inspiration to young students(he will be a senior at Queensbury this fall)...Was asked what he did the day after the hike and he said he went for a run.... oh for youth....
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:04 PM   #22
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Just to set the record straight.....

My complaint was not with that the young man had done (although for my own tastes I prefer the slow pace of the journey as opposed to reaching the destination, regardless of the time). My complaint was with the reporting and what they considered criteria for "experience". It's pretty obvious that whoever wrote the story was either pretty ignorant of what we do, or else fabricated the criteria in order to make the story more "exciting' or some such thing.

Many of these people suffer from "compound ignorance", they don't know that they don't know.
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Old 08-05-2010, 06:30 PM   #23
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In alking to the manager of the Saratoga store, Aaron was actually given an extra day off to complete his trip..Aaron did mention that the bugs were just horrible. Aaron's father was the one to call the Post Star. Aaron is just very unassuming and just did the trip because he figured he had 4 days and the trip was doable. Also understand that he is an excellent rock climber..Redhawk you have to remember that you are dealing with the Post Star....oops
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:22 PM   #24
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The fastest time for a supported "hike" that I know of is 30 hours start to finish.

Unsupported, I believe it is in the 48 hour range.

Hillman and I had a 72 hour hike planned but then his wife had a baby so we postponed it.
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The reason I would have for trying to do it in 4 days would be because of my current life schedule(kids/work). I've only thruhiked the npt twice, 11 days and 9 days respectively, and I doubt highly I will have that amount of time free again for a long time. I also like the idea of pushing my limits and seeing what I can do. I dayhiked the Cranberry Lake 50 last year while getting ready for that npt adventure. Skipped the high falls section though and cut straight out to wanakena due to a late start(10 am) and black flies. Did the ski trail section in the dark, and had a bicycle spotted to do the road section back to my car. I remember my hands freezing and I lost a bunch of toenails. Hopefully I can get my boy out on some mountain trails next summer as opposed to just the local stuff. I'm really keen on doing some canoe trips as well. But now we have a daughter coming in November, so hiking time will probably be even less

If Hillman would stop having babies maybe you could attempt it Neil...
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:57 PM   #25
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I'm pretty sure this will be the last child...it's just alot of fun making them
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:36 PM   #26
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Yep it's fluff over substance:

if someone is out there for speed, thay it's obvious they don't understand the reason most of us do it.
As for the newspapers reporters, they are so interested in creating a story, they fail to recognize the REAL story.

I've been hiking and backpacking since I was four years old (64 years total). I would estimate that I have backpacked well over 20,000 miles in my lifetime. I have hiked an about 35 states and 5 different countries. I have hiked every major trail in the US except the AT (Too "crowded"). I have bushwhacked about 60% of my backpacks. I have learned and instructed outdoor survival skills and I have beena guide for a small amout of time.

I have Thru-hiked the NPT approximately 15 times in the 11 years I have lived in the area. I have section hiked the areas from Benson to Wakely and LL through Cold River quite a few times in addition to the through hikes.

My "fastest" time on a through hike of the NPT is about 12 days. My time on my marathon hioke of 2700 miles was about 7 months.

SO, I guess by that reporters, college students standard I am "Inexperienced".
Now I ask you, You are doing a through hike in some rough country, who do you want for a partner? The "experienced" 17 year old or
the "inexperienced" 68 year old?

(Assuming we both kept our mouths shut of course! )
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Dear "Hawk",

I don't need to know why "most of us" do what you do and why. All I need to know is that I do what I enjoy doing and I dont even have to know why I do it so long as I still enjoy it.

As for the experienced/inexperienced bulls#$t. I was quoting the book I had in front of me at the time.

By the way I'm a High School student

And I'm sure that we can all assume that you kept your mouth shut about all of your exploits. Especially on the NPT.

Sincerely,
Aaron N.

P.S.- I wasn't going to tell a single other person than the ones i absolutely had to. It was my self-indulgent ass of a father that called that idiot at the paper. Not me. I get the feeling you and my father are a lot alike.

Last edited by Neil; 08-11-2010 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:48 PM   #27
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Dear "Hawk",

I don't need to know why "most of us" do what you do and why. All I need to know is that I do what I enjoy doing and I dont even have to know why I do it so long as I still enjoy it.

As for the experienced/inexperienced bulls#$t. I was quoting the book I had in front of me at the time.

By the way I'm a High School student

And I'm sure that we can all assume that you kept your mouth shut about all of your exploits. Especially on the NPT.


Sincerely,
Aaron N.

P.S.- I wasn't going to tell a single other person than the ones i absolutely had to. It was my self-indulgent ass of a father that called that idiot at the paper. Not me. I get the feeling you and my father are a lot alike.
I was referring to the newspaper article, not your exploits. If you had read through, rather then get your panties in a dither, you would have seen that.
And in fact, I do pretty much keep my mouth shut about my exploits unless it serves to make a point or to qualify a statement I have made.

And no, I don't really talk about any "exploits" I have had on the NPT unless it is pertinent to answering someones questions. I don't do a lot of trip reports because I think that most people have more important things to do then pay attention to what I am doing, and most of the hiking is redundant anyway. Anything I do on the NPT has been done no differently then hundreds of other people. What you have done has been done by quite a few other people as well, some faster.

I respect the fact that you are spending your time doing outdoor things and I hope you will continue to do so. However, in doing them, you will learn as you grow older that very little is "unique". There will always be someone who has done it longer, faster, or slower. Try "double timing" a 20 mile with a 40 mile pack in the summer heat. Running in the sand with 7 other men holding a telephone pole over your head and then diving into 60 degree ocean and rolling in the sand, picking up the pole and running with it again. That's what a great many people do in service of their country. I know a SEAL that hauled a 240 pound marine on his back for over 10 miles while being pursued under fire, by the enemy. Now THAT'S Impressive.


Where I have the problem is what the Newspaper has used as a criteria for a definition of "experienced" and how fast someone completes a trail would be one of the last considerations. Age, health, fitness and type of terrain all have to do with that. Amount of time backpacking, total miles, areas backpacked, type, (Trail, bushwhack), etc are all more determining criteria.

And no, I am probably not anything like your father. I wouldn't have made a big deal about your trek and I would have been proud that you weren't either.

So please don't think that it was your actions that i was taking issue with. personally, I like slow and easy, but then again, I'm kind of over the hill and long in the tooth.

Keep on doing outdoors, and hopefully (IMO), take some time to stop and smell the roses.

Hawk
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:17 PM   #28
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I don't get the whole thing of speed hiking but then again I am primarily a bushwhacker and I am never in a hurry..

Life is fast....and the older you get the faster it shoots by....I love to go on slow bushwhacking slogs especially in the winter time.....go slow ....check out that swamp...that marsh....that long lost beaver pond.....

Running through the woods doesn't trip my trigger but if it's a challenge for you go for it .......because if we don't find a way to push ourselves...find some individualism....what's the point of living?.....so go for it if that's what gets ya grinnin'.....good for you.....
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:39 AM   #29
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Dear "Hawk",

I don't need to know why "most of us" do what you do and why. All I need to know is that I do what I enjoy doing and I dont even have to know why I do it so long as I still enjoy it.

As for the experienced/inexperienced bulls#$t. I was quoting the book I had in front of me at the time.

By the way I'm a High School student

And I'm sure that we can all assume that you kept your mouth shut about all of your exploits. Especially on the NPT.

Sincerely,
Aaron N.

P.S.- I wasn't going to tell a single other person than the ones i absolutely had to. It was my self-indulgent ass of a father that called that idiot at the paper. Not me. I get the feeling you and my father are a lot alike.
Aaron -

There's lots of good people on this forum - and the world is a surprisingly small place. Flaming someone may seem worthwhile and feel good for a short period of time, but in the long haul doesn't serve you well.

Congrats by the way on your NPT trip. I've often wanted to do it in as short a time as possible, unfortunately the guy who did it a couple of years ago in 36-37 hours kind of put me to shame. Then again, I still need to get my pack under 30 pounds......

Happy Trails.

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Old 08-12-2010, 03:42 PM   #30
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Aaron -

There's lots of good people on this forum - and the world is a surprisingly small place.
What great wisdom!

Indeed, the world is a small place, especially our wonderful Adirondack world.

Why work at creating enemies out of those who would be friends?

Additionally, it seems to me that IB missed the point of the thread altogether. Both by his unfortunate choice of screen name and by his calling out of Mr. W. Redhawk.
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Last edited by Neil; 08-12-2010 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:10 AM   #31
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Life is fast...that's why I slow down

Would take Hawk as related to the question he posed. I thru hiked the NPT 5 times ranging from 9-13 days. Always felt like I moved too fast and missed too much. Not my thing.... speed I mean. Sold my Mustang in 1994. Now I ride a "slow" motorcycle. Let's not be too hard on the kid. Remember the story of the Bull and his boy looking out over the herd of cows. There is wisdom in the old bull's response for those that will get the reference.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:05 AM   #32
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Would take Hawk as related to the question he posed. I thru hiked the NPT 5 times ranging from 9-13 days. Always felt like I moved too fast and missed too much. Not my thing.... speed I mean. Sold my Mustang in 1994. Now I ride a "slow" motorcycle. Let's not be too hard on the kid. Remember the story of the Bull and his boy looking out over the herd of cows. There is wisdom in the old bull's response for those that will get the reference.
Funny, the "old bull, young bull" anecdote came to mind to me also.

As I tried to point out, it was the reporting of the story that I took issue with, but sometimes my posts become convoluted. Not only because of the major error in defining "experience", but I'm always afraid that a story like that will instigate a whole bunch of people to go and do the same thing who might not otherwise. This will result in more negative impact to the environment that might not otherwise take place.

I guess it's a sign of the times though. Today SPEED seems to be a determining factor, whether it's the NPT, the 46 or your DSL connection. I can remember taking hours to download a 400K program at 150 bps that had to be converted to an ascii file first and then restored back to an .exe or (GASP) a .com file, and having to type out a command line in cpm instead of clicking on a download link. It's funny at the time I thought it was quite fast compared to the 75 bps that I had to endure just a short time before.

I'm thinking maybe a lot of the problems today are because we are obsessed with speed rather then observation.

Oh well, maybe the next person who decides they want to complete the NPT in a record amount of time, might get pledges for donations to an outdoors related non-profit. Like the ADK High peaks Foundation.

Hawk
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:14 AM   #33
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Oh well, maybe the next person who decides they want to complete the NPT in a record amount of time, might get pledges for donations to an outdoors related non-profit. Like the ADK High peaks Foundation.

Hawk
Sounds like a great idea. I'd donate 10 bucks per day. The longer you take to do the trail the more money you raise.

Any ideas as to how many people per season the trail can handle before the carrying capacity is surpassed? I would think that person-nights might be a good unit of measure. All other things being equal the person doing it in 6 days would have less impact than the one doing it in 12.
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:27 PM   #34
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Sounds like a great idea. I'd donate 10 bucks per day. The longer you take to do the trail the more money you raise.

Any ideas as to how many people per season the trail can handle before the carrying capacity is surpassed? I would think that person-nights might be a good unit of measure. All other things being equal the person doing it in 6 days would have less impact than the one doing it in 12.
Actually we had plans to do exactly that this year, but "life" got in the way and scheduling got complicated. Maybe next year...but you're correct about the impact.

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Old 08-13-2010, 02:44 PM   #35
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Sounds like a great idea. I'd donate 10 bucks per day. The longer you take to do the trail the more money you raise.

Any ideas as to how many people per season the trail can handle before the carrying capacity is surpassed? I would think that person-nights might be a good unit of measure. All other things being equal the person doing it in 6 days would have less impact than the one doing it in 12.
Lots of variables involved in trying to figure that. What if the person aiming for the shorter time has a "support" group with them, as has been the case with some of the record breaking attempts. What if the person is in such a hurry that they do not clean up after themselves thoroughly, or dn't pack some of the traash out to save weight? And if the desire to do it in a shorter amount of tuime then someone else actually induces more people to attempt it, then what would appear to be logic in figuring the impact doesn't apply.

Hawk
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:23 PM   #36
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I said, "All other things being equal". We'll allow the mellower hikers and the speed hikers the same amount of littering and messiness: ie none.

Of course, barring food drops anyone doing it in say 12 days will have a heavier pack than Drew Haas who did it unsupported in something like 60 hours.

It's really just a thought experiment because it's impossible to verify.

(Supported hikers often (but not always) meet their support crew at roads.)

I really can't see more than a small handful of people doing this hike as a speed hike. Say, no more than 3 or 4 thousand per week in July-August.
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:26 PM   #37
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I said, "All other things being equal". We'll allow the mellower hikers and the speed hikers the same amount of littering and messiness: ie none.

Of course, barring food drops anyone doing it in say 12 days will have a heavier pack than Drew Haas who did it unsupported in something like 60 hours.

It's really just a thought experiment because it's impossible to verify.

(Supported hikers often (but not always) meet their support crew at roads.)

I really can't see more than a small handful of people doing this hike as a speed hike. Say, no more than 3 or 4 thousand per week in July-August.
I don't think the NPT gets 4000 thru huikers a year. Hoping it stays that way.

Hawk
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:54 PM   #38
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Then again, with the increasing popularity of the 100 mile ultramarathons, maybe a "stealth" 122 miler would be in order.....

When it comes to trash, speed shouldn't be a factor. Doing a 24 hour orienteering event a couple of weeks ago, I had one (zippered) pocket dedicated to gel and snack wrappers. It's easy to not leave trash when you plan a little.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:29 PM   #39
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As far as the world being small and completely off topic--I met deathmarch on my first night out on the npt during my first thruhike. Hiked the rest of the way with him and his two friends(in the rain). It was one of the best hikes I've ever done, and great company. Hi Greg, and I see that Dave just did the Cranberry lake 50. On the slowing down thing--I wish more than anything to be able to slow down and pace out a long time in the woods. It's just not in the cards for me at this point in my life. I'm envious of all the trip reports on the forums and I kind of re-live my hikes while reading about all of these hikes.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:12 PM   #40
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As far as the world being small and completely off topic--I met deathmarch on my first night out on the npt during my first thruhike. Hiked the rest of the way with him and his two friends(in the rain). It was one of the best hikes I've ever done, and great company. Hi Greg, and I see that Dave just did the Cranberry lake 50. On the slowing down thing--I wish more than anything to be able to slow down and pace out a long time in the woods. It's just not in the cards for me at this point in my life. I'm envious of all the trip reports on the forums and I kind of re-live my hikes while reading about all of these hikes.
Doug, maybe shorter hikes with longer stays?

Hawk
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