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  • #31
    so......
    what's the word on the road to Indian Lake. Gonna be closed or remain open?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Peakbagr
      So someone told you...I've been an ADK committee chair for over 20 years thru a variety of Exec Directors. The organization is run by an Excecutive Committe of widely varying opinions and points of view and much of the club's work largely staffed by volunteers. Your second hand information is a description of a Club I don't recognize.
      Well no, not exactly. But I'll defer to your first-hand experience.

      Comment


      • #33
        where dose the money come from for the trail maintinance and the changes being made in these areas . is this supported by the new york sports man fund and revenue generated by sporting licences fee's . got to ask because everything seems to be about funding these days

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 40dog View Post
          where dose the money come from for the trail maintinance and the changes being made in these areas . is this supported by the new york sports man fund and revenue generated by sporting licences fee's . got to ask because everything seems to be about funding these days
          We all contribute. The money comes from tax dollars (residents and then visitors paying taxes on gas, lodging, etc), sportsman fees and volunteers doing Lean-to & trail adoption.

          There are probably a zillion sources; I've touched on only a few no doubt.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by dundee View Post
            We all contribute. The money comes from tax dollars (residents and then visitors paying taxes on gas, lodging, etc), sportsman fees and volunteers doing Lean-to & trail adoption.

            There are probably a zillion sources; I've touched on only a few no doubt.
            But I must ask Are the sportsmen paying twice? Once in taxes and then sporting licenses.

            Comment


            • #36
              Perhaps they are. However, they are not alone:

              As a visitor to New Hampshire, I not only pay taxes for the upkeep of National forests, but I have to pay for a parking permit as well.

              As an ADK member, I pay dues. I also have to pay to park at ADK Loj.

              I also believe Keene Valley residents must pay to park at the Garden.

              In NYS, local gov'ts have the right to charge higher property taxes to people who own property, but don't actually live there.

              It's an unfair world out there.

              Comment


              • #37
                the sportsman are taking a big hit paying twice for sure . Add up the $100 license fees for a full license and the season select licenses wow ! we have been complaining about licenses fees for a long time but they just go up and up. some day the state will charge a fee for all state trail access a small fee at first to help offset repair and staffing and S A R costs for all hikers then slowly it will go up soon it will double in price yearly and that seems to be how the state will do it a little at a time. Its all weights and measurers state tips the scale heavy one way and we all have to level it from the pocket.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by adkman12986 View Post
                  But I must ask Are the sportsmen paying twice? Once in taxes and then sporting licenses.
                  Hmm, curious. By that reasoning, are people who have no children in school but are paying taxes for that being taxed unjustly?

                  And the people who are not paying the sportsman fees are not hunting or fishing. So does all the money for wildlife management and stream restocking come solely from the sportsman fees or are some of my tax dollars being used to pay for your enjoyment?

                  It's a two edged sword.

                  Hawk
                  "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by redhawk View Post
                    Hmm, curious. By that reasoning, are people who have no children in school but are paying taxes for that being taxed unjustly?

                    And the people who are not paying the sportsman fees are not hunting or fishing. So does all the money for wildlife management and stream restocking come solely from the sportsman fees or are some of my tax dollars being used to pay for your enjoyment?

                    It's a two edged sword.

                    Hawk
                    Hawk once again you miss the point or misrepresent what was meant.

                    Originally Posted by dundee
                    We all contribute. The money comes from tax dollars (residents and then visitors paying taxes on gas, lodging, etc), sportsman fees and volunteers doing Lean-to & trail adoption.

                    My question is do we as sportsmen pay for our license fee as well as taxes? Are hikers REQUIRED to pay a fee for trails as well as pay taxes Although many do contribute in other ways. Do canoest pay a fee for the use of our launches or parking other then taxes?

                    Sporting License sales by county


                    ALBANY Total 37,838 $1,033,420.84
                    ALLEGANY Total 15,672 $470,801.80
                    BRONX Total 7,153 $111,863.00
                    BROOME Total 42,505 $1,366,790.40
                    CATTARAUGUS Total 23,427 $736,719.12
                    CAYUGA Total 25,793 $712,619.68
                    CHAUTAUQUA Total 43,695 $1,538,563.40
                    CHEMUNG Total 20,037 $616,474.12
                    CHENANGO Total 17,962 $584,907.68
                    CLINTON Total 21,608 $749,429.67
                    COLUMBIA Total 12,293 $411,561.40
                    CORTLAND Total 17,429 $514,165.12
                    DELAWARE Total 17,942 $642,148.84
                    DUTCHESS Total 32,707 $883,471.12
                    ERIE Total 110,909 $2,940,525.36
                    ESSEX Total 12,963 $442,073.84
                    FRANKLIN Total 17,156 $473,259.56
                    FULTON Total 13,423 $376,421.68
                    GENESEE Total 16,824 $412,825.12
                    GREENE Total 10,864 $305,893.28
                    HAMILTON Total 2,844 $104,134.28
                    HERKIMER Total 17,986 $532,263.28
                    JEFFERSON Total 41,863 $1,192,462.80
                    KINGS Total 24,293 $506,229.30
                    LEWIS Total 12,226 $355,666.28
                    LIVINGSTON Total 18,571 $460,794.00
                    MADISON Total 15,836 $431,883.84
                    MONROE Total 73,785 $1,919,945.56
                    MONTGOMERY Total 10,327 $283,497.56
                    NASSAU Total 47,457 $1,021,496.31
                    NEW YORK Total 1,809 $39,615.10
                    NIAGARA Total 37,137 $949,498.84
                    ONEIDA Total 45,267 $1,283,323.48
                    ONONDAGA Total 56,846 $1,600,156.40
                    ONTARIO Total 29,341 $768,211.56
                    ORANGE Total 50,923 $1,485,883.40
                    ORLEANS Total 13,787 $368,995.28
                    OSWEGO Total 59,911 $1,963,389.68
                    OTSEGO Total 16,927 $498,420.96
                    PUTNAM Total 5,259 $170,339.28
                    QUEENS Total 23,229 $465,132.00
                    RENSSELAER Total 21,664 $702,970.68
                    RICHMOND Total 7,490 $163,839.00
                    ROCKLAND Total 19,200 $824,323.28
                    SARATOGA Total 29,606 $845,489.84
                    SCHENECTADY Total 13,735 $362,115.56
                    SCHOHARIE Total 12,839 $407,410.84
                    SCHUYLER Total 9,167 $283,654.40
                    SENECA Total 10,511 $214,157.28
                    ST LAWRENCE Total 41,280 $1,177,019.80
                    STEUBEN Total 38,706 $1,265,784.68
                    SUFFOLK Total 80,950 $1,710,021.33
                    SULLIVAN Total 22,273 $763,934.84
                    TIOGA Total 10,741 $347,918.84
                    TOMPKINS Total 14,825 $438,402.84
                    ULSTER Total 30,696 $837,390.56
                    unknown county Total 120,087 $4,542,313.00
                    WARREN Total 23,418 $791,816.12
                    WASHINGTON Total 11,149 $400,865.56
                    WAYNE Total 24,648 $616,622.84
                    WESTCHESTER Total 32,643 $865,243.10
                    WYOMING Total 11,499 $292,151.40
                    YATES Total 6,725 $170,974.68



                    Grand Total 1,717,676 $49,749,694.69



                    Now
                    Res Trail Supporter Patch
                    197 $985.00
                    NR Trail Supporter Patch
                    26 $130.00
                    I Support Conservation Fund
                    1,612 $1,612.00

                    I think the question you should be is some of their money supporting my hiking endevors.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by adkman12986 View Post
                      Hawk once again you miss the point or misrepresent what was meant.

                      Originally Posted by dundee
                      We all contribute. The money comes from tax dollars (residents and then visitors paying taxes on gas, lodging, etc), sportsman fees and volunteers doing Lean-to & trail adoption.

                      My question is do we as sportsmen pay for our license fee as well as taxes? Are hikers REQUIRED to pay a fee for trails as well as pay taxes Although many do contribute in other ways. Do canoest pay a fee for the use of our launches or parking other then taxes?

                      Sporting License sales by county


                      ALBANY Total 37,838 $1,033,420.84
                      ALLEGANY Total 15,672 $470,801.80
                      BRONX Total 7,153 $111,863.00
                      BROOME Total 42,505 $1,366,790.40
                      CATTARAUGUS Total 23,427 $736,719.12
                      CAYUGA Total 25,793 $712,619.68
                      CHAUTAUQUA Total 43,695 $1,538,563.40
                      CHEMUNG Total 20,037 $616,474.12
                      CHENANGO Total 17,962 $584,907.68
                      CLINTON Total 21,608 $749,429.67
                      COLUMBIA Total 12,293 $411,561.40
                      CORTLAND Total 17,429 $514,165.12
                      DELAWARE Total 17,942 $642,148.84
                      DUTCHESS Total 32,707 $883,471.12
                      ERIE Total 110,909 $2,940,525.36
                      ESSEX Total 12,963 $442,073.84
                      FRANKLIN Total 17,156 $473,259.56
                      FULTON Total 13,423 $376,421.68
                      GENESEE Total 16,824 $412,825.12
                      GREENE Total 10,864 $305,893.28
                      HAMILTON Total 2,844 $104,134.28
                      HERKIMER Total 17,986 $532,263.28
                      JEFFERSON Total 41,863 $1,192,462.80
                      KINGS Total 24,293 $506,229.30
                      LEWIS Total 12,226 $355,666.28
                      LIVINGSTON Total 18,571 $460,794.00
                      MADISON Total 15,836 $431,883.84
                      MONROE Total 73,785 $1,919,945.56
                      MONTGOMERY Total 10,327 $283,497.56
                      NASSAU Total 47,457 $1,021,496.31
                      NEW YORK Total 1,809 $39,615.10
                      NIAGARA Total 37,137 $949,498.84
                      ONEIDA Total 45,267 $1,283,323.48
                      ONONDAGA Total 56,846 $1,600,156.40
                      ONTARIO Total 29,341 $768,211.56
                      ORANGE Total 50,923 $1,485,883.40
                      ORLEANS Total 13,787 $368,995.28
                      OSWEGO Total 59,911 $1,963,389.68
                      OTSEGO Total 16,927 $498,420.96
                      PUTNAM Total 5,259 $170,339.28
                      QUEENS Total 23,229 $465,132.00
                      RENSSELAER Total 21,664 $702,970.68
                      RICHMOND Total 7,490 $163,839.00
                      ROCKLAND Total 19,200 $824,323.28
                      SARATOGA Total 29,606 $845,489.84
                      SCHENECTADY Total 13,735 $362,115.56
                      SCHOHARIE Total 12,839 $407,410.84
                      SCHUYLER Total 9,167 $283,654.40
                      SENECA Total 10,511 $214,157.28
                      ST LAWRENCE Total 41,280 $1,177,019.80
                      STEUBEN Total 38,706 $1,265,784.68
                      SUFFOLK Total 80,950 $1,710,021.33
                      SULLIVAN Total 22,273 $763,934.84
                      TIOGA Total 10,741 $347,918.84
                      TOMPKINS Total 14,825 $438,402.84
                      ULSTER Total 30,696 $837,390.56
                      unknown county Total 120,087 $4,542,313.00
                      WARREN Total 23,418 $791,816.12
                      WASHINGTON Total 11,149 $400,865.56
                      WAYNE Total 24,648 $616,622.84
                      WESTCHESTER Total 32,643 $865,243.10
                      WYOMING Total 11,499 $292,151.40
                      YATES Total 6,725 $170,974.68



                      Grand Total 1,717,676 $49,749,694.69



                      Now
                      Res Trail Supporter Patch
                      197 $985.00
                      NR Trail Supporter Patch
                      26 $130.00
                      I Support Conservation Fund
                      1,612 $1,612.00

                      I think the question you should be is some of their money supporting my hiking endevors.
                      No misrepresentation at all. henters and fishermen do not have to pay any fees to hike, do they? Hikers who do hunt or fish do not have to pay the sportsman fees.

                      Where is the misrepresentation? I agree there is some, but it's not from me. No one forces you to hunt or fish, if you do, you have to pay a fee. You have to hike in most cases to hunt or fish but you don't have to pay any extra for hiking.

                      And I asked if all the money that goes for the game management and the stocking of streams comes from sportsman fees or if other funds (tax dollars) are used for that. What about people who don't hike, paddle, ski, climb, hunt or fish? Their tax dollars are paying for the maintenance, etc.

                      Many of the trails todays are maintained by volunteers, Rangers are responsible for checking and policing hunting and fishing and that actually requires a little more effort then just patroling the trails for hikers.

                      I am all in favor of licenses for hikers. I think we should all be responsible for supporting our recreational endeavors.

                      Hawk
                      "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Quite frankly,when using state land I do not feel that we should have to pay an extra fee for hunting.Supposedly it is our land paid for by our taxes. An extra fee for fishing is reasonable to pay for stocking but when it comes to hunting deer,bear,rabbits,squirrels,and waterfowl none of these animals require extra expense in the form of stocking from the state to maintain adequate numbers.In fact it is the hunters who help maintain adequate numbers. Personally I clear and do simple maintainence on state land trails whenever I hike so I do not feel I should have to pay extra to use them.I would just like to see more do the same.I feel I would be foolish to think that my fee going to the state for hiking would actually be used to maintain trails. I believe the fee would either go in some politicians pocket or to another social program that is totally unrelated to what I'm paying for.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          No misrepresentation at all. henters and fishermen do not have to pay any fees to hike, do they? Hikers who do hunt or fish do not have to pay the sportsman fees.

                          Still comes from my taxes.

                          Where is the misrepresentation? I agree there is some, but it's not from me. No one forces you to hunt or fish, if you do, you have to pay a fee. You have to hike in most cases to hunt or fish but you don't have to pay any extra for hiking.

                          No one forces you to hike for free.

                          And I asked if all the money that goes for the game management and the stocking of streams comes from sportsman fees or if other funds (tax dollars) are used for that. What about people who don't hike, paddle, ski, climb, hunt or fish? Their tax dollars are paying for the maintenance, etc.

                          Road maintainance welfare school aide etc.


                          Many of the trails todays are maintained by volunteers, Rangers are responsible for checking and policing hunting and fishing and that actually requires a little more effort then just patroling the trails for hikers.

                          How many times have they had to rescue lost and injured hikers compaired to hunters?

                          I am all in favor of licenses for hikers. I think we should all be responsible for supporting our recreational endeavors.

                          On thing we agree on.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rollinslover64 View Post
                            Quite frankly,when using state land I do not feel that we should have to pay an extra fee for hunting.Supposedly it is our land paid for by our taxes. An extra fee for fishing is reasonable to pay for stocking but when it comes to hunting deer,bear,rabbits,squirrels,and waterfowl none of these animals require extra expense in the form of stocking from the state to maintain adequate numbers.In fact it is the hunters who help maintain adequate numbers. Personally I clear and do simple maintainence on state land trails whenever I hike so I do not feel I should have to pay extra to use them.I would just like to see more do the same.I feel I would be foolish to think that my fee going to the state for hiking would actually be used to maintain trails. I believe the fee would either go in some politicians pocket or to another social program that is totally unrelated to what I'm paying for.
                            Well said. That is what is wrong with the system today.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              taxes taxes taxes what taxes pay for what is the question . If you are not a land or homeowner then you only pay income and or sales tax you dont pay school tax , property tax in my case this is close to $11,000 combined a year and they never seem to go down. people who dont own property are really getting a better piece of the action they can use all state access lands , vote on school budjets and improvement projects and not have to pay a penny toward them . ive been a landlord and try raising the rent on a good tennant year after year they wont be around long up and gone . As land owners and sportsman we cant up and leave . the more i think of this whole conversation there realy should be a access pass for non land or home owners these funds should go to the state for help to close budjet gaps in the outdoor sector almost like a empire pass for state park access. land owners should have there pass sent to them upon payment recieved of there taxes . That statement is going to bother some but just because you pay a little sales tax , fuel tax , your not realy feeling the hit try owning some property . These lands are for us to use but allways at someones cost.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Thread has drifted off topic. Back to Moose River Plains, it sounds like APA is tangled up in its drawers again (as usual). What most people agreed as a reasonable compromise is now being mangled by the usual extremists. Too bad...

                                Comment

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