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Accidental stocking and holding those responsible.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Tug Hill View Post
    Anyone who thinks beavers enhance water quality and brook trout populations, is delusional . I gave the Tug Hill Tomorrow Land Trust staff a tour last summer, they saw the beaver destruction first hand.

    Why do you think the DEC’s Best Managment Practices for timber harvests, suggests 75’ - 100’ buffers along classified trout streams ? It’s more about about protecting shade integrity, than just stopping siltation, beavers do not abide by best management practices.

    Still no takers on my invite, just as I expected, talk is cheap, I rest my case.
    I agree with you on beaver destructiveness where population gets out of hand (which is most places these days, since pelts don't fetch much). Re-introduction of wolf is the only viable long term solution for proper rodent management, but it isn't likely to happen any time soon...

    However, in fairness to the beaver RE: "best practices in timber harvesting" - I've never seen a rodent drive a 4wd 15,000+ lb skidder dragging a load of 20' logs...
    Feverishly avoiding "a steady stream of humanity, with a view that offers little more than butts, boots, elbows and backsides". (description quote from Joe Hackett)

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    • #32
      According to studies done by ESF in the Huntington Research Forest where they collected and examined the scat of Coyotes in the Adirondacks they claim that Beaver makes up a pretty significant and growing part of their diet. Eastern Coyotes are big and very capable of killing the beaver in place of wolves. No need to consider bringing in wolves.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Stillhunter View Post
        According to studies done by ESF in the Huntington Research Forest where they collected and examined the scat of Coyotes in the Adirondacks they claim that Beaver makes up a pretty significant and growing part of their diet. Eastern Coyotes are big and very capable of killing the beaver in place of wolves. No need to consider bringing in wolves.
        It'd be great if eastern coyotes could take place of wolves in beaver management.

        From what I've seen in the woods (or meadows) the beaver numbers don't seem to decline in any significant way. It's possible the 'yotes are adapting and will take care of more beavers. However, it's also quite possible that 'yotes are simply taking advantage of the opportunity to snack on the young and the sick of the overpopulation that beavers are causing...

        Unfortunately, it seems the 'yotes are displacing red fox among other side effects. The small rodent population is less attractive to 'yotes, so I've got chipmunks, mice and voles run a mock. Then you've got ticks using mice as hosts...

        Somewhere, somehow some king of "balance" will be established - it might not be what's good for brook trout though.
        Feverishly avoiding "a steady stream of humanity, with a view that offers little more than butts, boots, elbows and backsides". (description quote from Joe Hackett)

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        • #34
          Originally posted by timberghost View Post
          I agree with you on beaver destructiveness where population gets out of hand (which is most places these days, since pelts don't fetch much). Re-introduction of wolf is the only viable long term solution for proper rodent management, but it isn't likely to happen any time soon...

          However, in fairness to the beaver RE: "best practices in timber harvesting" - I've never seen a rodent drive a 4wd 15,000+ lb skidder dragging a load of 20' logs...
          I vote that the first wolves reintroduced go in your back yard.

          I don't think my statement that the beaver and the brook trout coexisted long before we got here has in anyway been refuted. I would love to tour this managed forest area (I'm on the old Gutchess tract where the whirlygigs are going in to provide downstate power and keep the Governor's ego inflated, we have our share of beavers but also had trappers in there a few years ago, amazing how many dams are gone since then) but I'm not going anywhere in the Central Hill where I have to get out of the car until the Black flies and deer flies die down, likely late August.

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          • #35
            Me, Me, put the wolves in my backyard first. Maybe those giant destructive rodents called deer will disappear as a result. I hate them, they eat everything, ruining trees of all kinds, especially apples and cedars (even my hemlocks too), and destroy my vegetable garden.
            "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Lucky13 View Post
              I vote that the first wolves reintroduced go in your back yard.
              I'd have absolutely no problems with that, neighbours keeping livestock would surely protest loudly...

              Originally posted by Wldrns View Post
              Me, Me, put the wolves in my backyard first. Maybe those giant destructive rodents called deer will disappear as a result. I hate them, they eat everything, ruining trees of all kinds, especially apples and cedars (even my hemlocks too), and destroy my vegetable garden.
              The deer won't disappear. The heard will be healthier (and smaller) as weak deer will get eaten, not just the ones with nice racks on them...
              Feverishly avoiding "a steady stream of humanity, with a view that offers little more than butts, boots, elbows and backsides". (description quote from Joe Hackett)

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              • #37
                I don't have any with nice racks on them. The new fawns are just as destructive as their rackless mothers. Eaten weak fawns and a smaller herd would be great for me. Just for them move on away is what I most want. And for them to stop misjudging the approach speed of cars while trying to beat it while spurting to cross the road.

                Getting way off the original OP topic here.
                "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Tug Hill View Post
                  talk is cheap

                  I agree;
                  and Reading Comprehension is at a premium.



                  ...and No, we still haven't begun to address the original post.

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                  • #39
                    Hey less deer means less ticks perhaps not a bad thing considering the increase in tick borne illnesses over the last ten years.

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                    • #40
                      Have you considered punctuation?
                      At least for your children...

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                      • #41
                        DEC = DepArtmEnt oF EteRnAL ConFuSioN.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ryan Ball View Post
                          Hey less deer means less ticks perhaps not a bad thing considering the increase in tick borne illnesses over the last ten years.
                          I’m pretty sure that’s a common misconception. Deer aren’t the primary culprit for ticks
                          "The finest gift you can give to any fisherman is to put a good fish back, and who knows if the fish that you caught isn't someone else's gift to you?"

                          Lee Wulff

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                          • #43
                            Is there a list of "accidentally" stocked ponds? My guess is it is a small list but it may have happened a few times. Flying around some ponds can look similar?

                            A pond being stocked with Browns to try and control shiners is different issue. They should probably just reclaim the pond and put brookies back in. Some may enjoy fishing for the browns in ponds but I would rather catch my browns in a stream.

                            When the DEC stocks the wrong fish it is called "accidental stocking". If an honest sportsman violates a Fish and Game law by accident it is always "your fault" because it is your responsibility to know the regulations, period.

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                            • #44
                              Deer are not overpopulated in most areas of the Northern Zone, so this idea that wolves are needed to control their numbers is based on a faulty assumption. No doe tags are issued for rifle season for many of the northern WMU's (especially within the ADK's); there is a reason the DEC has that policy in place.

                              Deer are overpopulated in the Southern Zone (more so in some areas versus others), but good luck trying to integrate an apex predator in that kind of mixed habitat.

                              Beaver numbers are high in some areas. I see them quite often on hikes along rivers and lakes. The DEC could issue free trapping permits or even a moderate bounty if they're really becoming an issue. Truth be told, I don't think they are much of an issue. The Coyote do go after them where they are abundant. I wouldn't be surprised if Black Bear contribute to their mortality rate too. And private landowners will routinely hire trappers to help mitigate their effect on logging operations.

                              BTW, does anyone here trap Beavers up in the ADK's? If so, I'd love to tag along.
                              Last edited by Bounder45; 06-01-2018, 12:22 PM.

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                              • #45
                                Stillhunter, yeah it was a total goof up on this pond in specific. It was reclaimed in 92 or 97 i dont recall. It has been used for years to get breeding males to mate in the hatchery.

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