Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Hunting and Fishing in the Adirondacks
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-27-2018, 05:01 PM   #21
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,785
My dad grew up on Tug Hill in the early/mid 20th century, town of Montague, Sears Pond area. He often said there were no beavers anymore, as they had all been trapped out. I have many early memories as a young lad hunting and fishing with him, he carrying me across the stream to get to deep water holes full of trout.

Look at the most current edition (1943) of the USGS topo map for Sears Pond and surrounding maps. Streams with plenty of tributaries are well represented passing through green woodlands. Go there now and there are wide open beaver marshes. You can't walk any stream very far without coming across a beaver impoundment. The old out of date topo maps are virtually useless. I've been on a couple of SAR incidents there in recent years, and there is very little dry land to walk where Dad and I used to travel.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 11:03 PM   #22
bosco
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 24
Trapping is hard work, especially beaver trapping. Its not nearly as lucrative as it used to be and wearing fur is a sin now. Mr beaver is only doing what he knows best. I still catch enough brook trout to keep me happy when i head to the dacks. I would love it if fur prices were good though. It might mean a few more kids doing something constructive.
bosco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 01:31 AM   #23
serotonin
ember
 
serotonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,205
For millennia, the main predator of the beaver was the wolf.
We wiped out the entire populations of both animals in a short span of time.
Then we reinstated the beaver, but We created the imbalance.
(Not to mention wiping out nearly all Heritage Brook Trout).

The best and most rational thing to do now is Blame the Beaver!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj4OwUox_Kc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVSwJqp8IQM



...and No, this doesn't begin to address the original post.
__________________
The fishing was really good for 10,000 years.
serotonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 12:58 PM   #24
Lucky13
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
My dad grew up on Tug Hill in the early/mid 20th century, town of Montague, Sears Pond area. He often said there were no beavers anymore, as they had all been trapped out. I have many early memories as a young lad hunting and fishing with him, he carrying me across the stream to get to deep water holes full of trout.

Look at the most current edition (1943) of the USGS topo map for Sears Pond and surrounding maps. Streams with plenty of tributaries are well represented passing through green woodlands. Go there now and there are wide open beaver marshes. You can't walk any stream very far without coming across a beaver impoundment. The old out of date topo maps are virtually useless. I've been on a couple of SAR incidents there in recent years, and there is very little dry land to walk where Dad and I used to travel.
Sears Pond has disappeared since those days, but the Deer River running through there is very trouty looking, and from what I was told, the bass had become quite a problem (accidental stocking?), not so much with the pond removed. The headwaters of the Mad are very trouty up there also, but you will be fighting slippery bottoms and tag alder the whole time, as well as the bugs. And keep in mind that this area was also hit hard by the drought in the summer of 2016.
Lucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 05:48 PM   #25
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,785
Sears Pond as a significant body of water body has not existed for at least 40 years.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 06:01 PM   #26
Lucky13
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 268
It was still there when I took my son up about 15 years ago, although we decided from the road that it was not worth struggling to get the Raddison into it, but the remnants of the dam were removed by Nichelle Billhart and her crew from Lewis County Soil and Water about 8 years ago, and the stream has channelized through the area nicely, based on checking it three years ago. I won't be looking at it this year until at least late August, the Tug Hill deerflies follow close on the heels of the black flies, and they can take chunk out of the ear without landing!
Lucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2018, 08:21 PM   #27
Connecticut Yankee
Connecticut Yankee
 
Connecticut Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CT
Posts: 680
Dam(n) those Beaver!!!
__________________
Because It's There, and it may not be tomorrow
Connecticut Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2018, 09:40 PM   #28
ADKpikebuster
Member
 
ADKpikebuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: way back
Posts: 261
I blame Obama
__________________
in memory of Jimmy Johnson, an Adirondack Legend

I used to drink a lot. I still do...but I used to, too

http://youtu.be/DJH8iMb2YXk YEEFRICKINYEEE "
ADKpikebuster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 08:46 AM   #29
Tug Hill
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Anyone who thinks beavers enhance water quality and brook trout populations, is delusional . I gave the Tug Hill Tomorrow Land Trust staff a tour last summer, they saw the beaver destruction first hand.

Why do you think the DEC’s Best Managment Practices for timber harvests, suggests 75’ - 100’ buffers along classified trout streams ? It’s more about about protecting shade integrity, than just stopping siltation, beavers do not abide by best management practices.

Still no takers on my invite, just as I expected, talk is cheap, I rest my case.
Tug Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 10:57 PM   #30
EagleCrag
Member
 
EagleCrag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gloversville, NY
Posts: 1,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADKpikebuster View Post
I blame Obama
Good one! LMAO.
EagleCrag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 11:18 PM   #31
timberghost
I bear therefore I am
 
timberghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tug Hill View Post
Anyone who thinks beavers enhance water quality and brook trout populations, is delusional . I gave the Tug Hill Tomorrow Land Trust staff a tour last summer, they saw the beaver destruction first hand.

Why do you think the DECís Best Managment Practices for timber harvests, suggests 75í - 100í buffers along classified trout streams ? Itís more about about protecting shade integrity, than just stopping siltation, beavers do not abide by best management practices.

Still no takers on my invite, just as I expected, talk is cheap, I rest my case.
I agree with you on beaver destructiveness where population gets out of hand (which is most places these days, since pelts don't fetch much). Re-introduction of wolf is the only viable long term solution for proper rodent management, but it isn't likely to happen any time soon...

However, in fairness to the beaver RE: "best practices in timber harvesting" - I've never seen a rodent drive a 4wd 15,000+ lb skidder dragging a load of 20' logs...
__________________
Feverishly avoiding "a steady stream of humanity, with a view that offers little more than butts, boots, elbows and backsides". (description quote from Joe Hackett)
timberghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 11:51 AM   #32
Stillhunter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 333
According to studies done by ESF in the Huntington Research Forest where they collected and examined the scat of Coyotes in the Adirondacks they claim that Beaver makes up a pretty significant and growing part of their diet. Eastern Coyotes are big and very capable of killing the beaver in place of wolves. No need to consider bringing in wolves.
Stillhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 01:17 PM   #33
timberghost
I bear therefore I am
 
timberghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillhunter View Post
According to studies done by ESF in the Huntington Research Forest where they collected and examined the scat of Coyotes in the Adirondacks they claim that Beaver makes up a pretty significant and growing part of their diet. Eastern Coyotes are big and very capable of killing the beaver in place of wolves. No need to consider bringing in wolves.
It'd be great if eastern coyotes could take place of wolves in beaver management.

From what I've seen in the woods (or meadows) the beaver numbers don't seem to decline in any significant way. It's possible the 'yotes are adapting and will take care of more beavers. However, it's also quite possible that 'yotes are simply taking advantage of the opportunity to snack on the young and the sick of the overpopulation that beavers are causing...

Unfortunately, it seems the 'yotes are displacing red fox among other side effects. The small rodent population is less attractive to 'yotes, so I've got chipmunks, mice and voles run a mock. Then you've got ticks using mice as hosts...

Somewhere, somehow some king of "balance" will be established - it might not be what's good for brook trout though.
__________________
Feverishly avoiding "a steady stream of humanity, with a view that offers little more than butts, boots, elbows and backsides". (description quote from Joe Hackett)
timberghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 03:30 PM   #34
Lucky13
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberghost View Post
I agree with you on beaver destructiveness where population gets out of hand (which is most places these days, since pelts don't fetch much). Re-introduction of wolf is the only viable long term solution for proper rodent management, but it isn't likely to happen any time soon...

However, in fairness to the beaver RE: "best practices in timber harvesting" - I've never seen a rodent drive a 4wd 15,000+ lb skidder dragging a load of 20' logs...
I vote that the first wolves reintroduced go in your back yard.

I don't think my statement that the beaver and the brook trout coexisted long before we got here has in anyway been refuted. I would love to tour this managed forest area (I'm on the old Gutchess tract where the whirlygigs are going in to provide downstate power and keep the Governor's ego inflated, we have our share of beavers but also had trappers in there a few years ago, amazing how many dams are gone since then) but I'm not going anywhere in the Central Hill where I have to get out of the car until the Black flies and deer flies die down, likely late August.
Lucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 06:42 PM   #35
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,785
Me, Me, put the wolves in my backyard first. Maybe those giant destructive rodents called deer will disappear as a result. I hate them, they eat everything, ruining trees of all kinds, especially apples and cedars (even my hemlocks too), and destroy my vegetable garden.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 07:26 PM   #36
timberghost
I bear therefore I am
 
timberghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
I vote that the first wolves reintroduced go in your back yard.
I'd have absolutely no problems with that, neighbours keeping livestock would surely protest loudly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
Me, Me, put the wolves in my backyard first. Maybe those giant destructive rodents called deer will disappear as a result. I hate them, they eat everything, ruining trees of all kinds, especially apples and cedars (even my hemlocks too), and destroy my vegetable garden.
The deer won't disappear. The heard will be healthier (and smaller) as weak deer will get eaten, not just the ones with nice racks on them...
__________________
Feverishly avoiding "a steady stream of humanity, with a view that offers little more than butts, boots, elbows and backsides". (description quote from Joe Hackett)
timberghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 08:14 PM   #37
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,785
I don't have any with nice racks on them. The new fawns are just as destructive as their rackless mothers. Eaten weak fawns and a smaller herd would be great for me. Just for them move on away is what I most want. And for them to stop misjudging the approach speed of cars while trying to beat it while spurting to cross the road.

Getting way off the original OP topic here.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 10:40 PM   #38
serotonin
ember
 
serotonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tug Hill View Post
talk is cheap

I agree;
and Reading Comprehension is at a premium.



...and No, we still haven't begun to address the original post.
__________________
The fishing was really good for 10,000 years.
serotonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 10:48 PM   #39
Ryan Ball
NYOutdoors
 
Ryan Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Saranac Lake NY
Posts: 328
Hey less deer means less ticks perhaps not a bad thing considering the increase in tick borne illnesses over the last ten years.
Ryan Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 10:58 PM   #40
serotonin
ember
 
serotonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,205
Have you considered punctuation?
At least for your children...
__________________
The fishing was really good for 10,000 years.
serotonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.