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Moose population dropping?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tug Hill View Post
    Radio collaring moose in NY is not a recent event, the DEC has been doing it for at least 30 years. So I’m not sure why radio collaring would make the recent estimate more accurate ?
    The more they collar the more accurate the count becomes.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Woodly View Post
      The more they collar the more accurate the count becomes.

      Actually I think the DEC has collared fewer moose in recent years than they did 20 - 30 years ago. Most collared moose were nuisance moose that were harassing dairy farms.

      Years past, There was a collared bull moose that wintered near my home in region 6. DEC personnel from region 8 came here, did not ask permission to go on my neighbors land. They chased the moose off my neighbors land, and the moose headed out of the county and was hit by a motor vehicle on rt 28 near Forestport. A state trooper shot it multiple times with his handgun to put it down, but failed. So a taxidermist that lived near the accident site was contacted and he shot it with his deer rifle.

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      • #18
        The DEC is also looking for public assistance when it comes to moose sightings. The DEC and its moose partners have an online form to log moose sightings. For more information on moose in New York, including the sighting form, go to www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6964.html.
        If I remember correctly this has been going on for at least a few years now...no?
        It’d be interesting if the public is able to view the data results...?
        I wonder how many people when they see a moose (especially if its uncollared) actually report it, and what are the possibles that the same moose has been reported several times.
        In any event, it does seem like more & more people are seeing moose in the Adirondacks these days, judging from news articles & social media posts over the past few years, but perhaps that’s actually just an illusion.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Justin View Post
          If I remember correctly this has been going on for at least a few years now...no?
          It’d be interesting if the public is able to view the data results...?
          I'm sure they'll release a final report in the form of a Moose Management Plan for a five or ten year period. Initially the plan was to be published this year. But, I heard they still have another year of monitoring ahead, at least in the Adirondacks. 'Not sure about beyond.
          Life's short, hunt hard!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Buckladd View Post
            I'm sure they'll release a final report in the form of a Moose Management Plan for a five or ten year period. Initially the plan was to be published this year. But, I heard they still have another year of monitoring ahead, at least in the Adirondacks. 'Not sure about beyond.
            Copy, thanks Buckladd.

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            • #21
              No doubt there are a number of factors at work here. But I can't help feeling that there may be 3 prevailing reasons for the seeming discrepancy:

              1. The previously noted "guestimates" which may not have relied on actual data were putting the population estimate too high...........and now actual aerial survey data is correcting that to a lower, more realisic #.

              2. The aforementioned factor that state lands are not the best habitat for promoting more vigorous growth in the population.

              3. Aside from state lands comprising nearly 1/2 the ADK's 6 million acres - there are roughly 3 million acres plus of possibly better habitat private lands. However, on those private lands there is also the greater opportunity for poaching to occur (I have heard several tales of this, by the way). This factor may be suppressing the overall population, I believe.
              Ahh............Wilderness.......

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              • #22
                Originally posted by sleepy View Post
                I wonder if the drop in the population is due to the more accurate method of estimating the population. Years past estimates seemed to be of the back of the envelope guestimates verse the latest round of aerial surveys and tracking. As stated in the latest report "Although the total number of moose was less than anticipated at the start of our surveys, the population appears to be in good physical condition with many calves seen accompanying females each year."

                Spot on - working with past guesstimates and even current (albeit better) guesstimates its hard to have a realistic interpretation of the true number and more importantly - the "trend" of the population. In the coming years, I assume in a few years of far better /more accurate data we can better predict a real population trend. I for one am glad a more realistic number will help prevent people pushing for a hunt. This population is far too small and sensitive to add "any" unnecessary pressure to the small Moose population within the blue line. If the erratic climate /jet stream continues (which seems to be the case) they will have a tough time in the future so we need to cherish whats here today.
                The more wilderness in the Adirondacks, the better.

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                • #23
                  If moose in the blue line are at the edge of their range then their lives will be hard and they will be under strong "selection pressure".
                  The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Neil View Post
                    If moose in the blue line are at the edge of their range then their lives will be hard and they will be under strong "selection pressure".
                    I agree, the Adk’s Probably never supported a large moose population in the first place.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by poconoron View Post
                      3. Aside from state lands comprising nearly 1/2 the ADK's 6 million acres - there are roughly 3 million acres plus of possibly better habitat private lands. However, on those private lands there is also the greater opportunity for poaching to occur (I have heard several tales of this, by the way). This factor may be suppressing the overall population, I believe.
                      There really is no evidence that poaching is a problem with regards to NY's Moose. Even if a few have been illegally taken over the last few years (there is no evidence that has happened) I doubt that would have much of an impact on the overall population.

                      Originally posted by adk View Post
                      I for one am glad a more realistic number will help prevent people pushing for a hunt. This population is far too small and sensitive to add "any" unnecessary pressure to the small Moose population within the blue line. If the erratic climate /jet stream continues (which seems to be the case) they will have a tough time in the future so we need to cherish whats here today.
                      The new estimate of '400' is only for the ADK's. There is viable Moose habitat outside of the blue line, and I wouldn't be surprised if the overall population for NY is a bit higher.

                      Also, NY's Moose population has seen a gradual but healthy increase over the last few decades. I think if that trend continues, hunting will eventually become a viable part of the conservation picture. And that's nothing to be angry about; historically the North American animals that have regulated hunting have fared very well in terms of conservation funding and overall species viability.
                      Last edited by Bounder45; 02-28-2018, 11:35 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bounder45 View Post
                        ...Even if a few have been illegally taken over the last few years (there is no evidence that has happened)...
                        It has happened... https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2...ull-moose.html

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Justin View Post
                          Poaching, and a non-resident at that...no bueno.

                          I still don't consider poaching to be a widespread problem for NY Moose, and certainly not to the point where it is seriously impacting the overall population trend. I expect that if it was impacting the population trend, the DEC survey would have mentioned it.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bounder45 View Post
                            Poaching, and a non-resident at that...no bueno.

                            I still don't consider poaching to be a widespread problem for NY Moose, and certainly not to the point where it is seriously impacting the overall population trend. I expect that if it was impacting the population trend, the DEC survey would have mentioned it.
                            Might be the DEC doesn't even know the extent of it, either.
                            Ahh............Wilderness.......

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by poconoron View Post
                              Might be the DEC doesn't even know the extent of it, either.
                              Okay? Does anyone else know the "extent" of Moose poaching? All I've seen so far is an article mentioning two cases and an anecdotal claim that it's likely to happen on private land.

                              I expect that if any organization would be in the know when it comes to Moose conservation, to include poaching problems, it would be the executive agency tasked with protecting said animals: the DEC. From all the DEC highlights I've read, it certainly doesn't seem that Moose poaching is a widespread problem.

                              And if no one, to include the DEC, knows the true extent of this supposed problem, then I'd say we're discussing a problem that no one can prove exists....which is a pointless endeavour.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Neil View Post
                                If moose in the blue line are at the edge of their range then their lives will be hard and they will be under strong "selection pressure".
                                A good point, but the question is when this map was made and based on what? Generally these maps I see are based on current populations and estimates.

                                The more interesting question would be what the moose population and range was before humans had a significant impact on the landscape. That may even precede the rise of the Iroquois nation in NYS. We'd probably never get an answer in the east, but out west, there may have been reports. For example, did moose used to populate the central Rockies down into Colorado?

                                And would the Adirondacks continue to support moose population, even on the fringes, if it weren't for the forest preserve and better logging practices and of course, lack of hunting? It seems as though at the time the park was created, the moose population was not exactly thriving.

                                What I tend to notice about that map is that it generally outlines the Boreal and Hemiboreal forests with some encroachment into Tundra. With the changing climate could come changes to these forest types and force the moose out of the southern reaches altogether. I don't know enough about their habitat requirements to understand what limits them from populating further south.
                                Last edited by montcalm; 03-01-2018, 12:05 AM.

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