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#121 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 881
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My idea of a "compromise" would be to allow sportsmen (hunters/trappers/anglers) floatplane access to the interior of the Adirondacks (yes, Wilderness areas) during the trout and big game seasons. As for Glacier, I've been there and having mule deer eat out of my hand isn't exactly a "wild" experience.
In Mr. Dweller's vision if I'm tracking a buck in the Wilcox Lake Wild Forest and it goes over to the Siamese Ponds Wilderness I'd have to give up the track. Not only is that a bunch of crap but it's also discrimination. There's a few users of the Forest Preserve I prefer not to encounter but they have as much of a right to be there as I and we must tolerate each other. As for thinking you'd see more wildlife if more predators were hunting them instead of humans; you are in Disneyland. In the past two decades coyotes have become more prevalent in all three of my main Adirondack hunting areas. I'm still successful at finding deer, but I have to work to see them as they are more skittish then ever. Even the deer around my home do not come out into the open the way they used to and fawn recruitement is way down. So, be careful what you wish for. The Adirondacks are not perfect, but I'll take them the way they are and I see all kinds of wildlife (deer, bear, turkey, coyotes, fox, fisher, marten, mink, eagles) all year long; especially during hunting season. The only thing I rarely encounter are bobcats, but they are there. Perhaps you should work on your woodsmanship skills if you want to see more wildlife. |
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#122 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 559
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They have roads in national parks...yes, enough to give you some access, but the backcountry is protected AS wilderness - EVEN MORE SO than actual designated wilderness on national forest land or BLM land, where they allow hunting. I PREFER the backcountry in national parks because to me that is MORE pure wilderness...you're not allowed to kill the things that live there. And YES I know that Wrangell St Elias is a preserve AND a park - but at least they have PARK (no hunting) and PRESERVE (hunting allowed primarily because there aren't too many supermarkets around to by beef).
The Adironacks should have both also. I know this is new thinking and new thinking scares old conformist authoritarians, especially if they are biased and like doing something somebody else thinks we ought to stop doing...but you're a big boy and should be able to think outside the box. |
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#123 |
Mobster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 878
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I'm not a hunter or angler... but I have to think of it from this perspective.
If I was living a somewhat simple, subsistence-based life as some do in more remote areas, the Adirondacks being a prime example in the east, I would hunt and eat meat. Why? There aren't exactly supermarkets everywhere and why put more strain on the rest of the world and their meat production industry (which don't even get me started) when you could eat the most natural meat known to man. Also it's just way, way cheaper. Again, why are we protecting deer and not the moss? Seems arbitrary. If the deer populations are not so low as to threaten the population, its really no different. Except somehow it is? |
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#124 | |
Mobster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 878
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#125 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 559
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#126 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 559
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Quote:
And yes, lots of hunters kill more wildlife than a FEW roads do. Combine the two, animals accidentally killed by cars and animals deliberately killed by people and it is probably an unacceptable amount...to people that don't like animals being killed. |
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#127 |
Mobster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 878
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Still avoiding my other questions... but I suppose that's just for YOUR convenience.
One glaring fact: People hunted these lands long before there were ever roads and when they were in fact true wilderness. Just because you don't like hunting, doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in Wilderness lands. I'm not sure for the reasons why hunting is limited in NPs, but I tend to think it is more along the lines of human motivation i.e. tourism rather than actual wildlife conservation. |
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#128 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 881
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#129 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 881
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Quote:
As for the localvore thing, we like that too. My wife and I both enjoy venison, wild turkey and certain fish I bring home. I'll eat bear but she won't. But mostly we use venison as a supplement and a good one at that. We also share with our friends who don't hunt but like venison, and there are a lot of them. I've got a crockpot of venison chili going right now! I'm just about out of last year's supply; just in time for the upcoming deer season. |
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#130 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Standing in a stream waving a stick
Posts: 1,009
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So you still have Venison left from last season...almost a year. Way too long for this guy.
Every year I do a bass trip in late June with a bunch of guys. Every year I smoke a brisket, some ribs and chicken. One guy brings a bunch of frozen venison and every year the hunters all go: Mmmm I'm really looking forward to a feed of venison. Well every year we're stuck with an uneaten heaping platter of venison. It gets wrapped up and someone says I'll take it home but I bet it ends up in the garbage. Makes you wonder what the deer died for.
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Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE. |
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#131 |
Mobster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 878
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Interesting. I don't eat it anymore, but I recall when I was kid we'd eat venison all year round. We'd also eat pork too and I'm sure we didn't have pigs butchered more than once a year.
I do recall there was an order in which you wanted to eat things. I think towards the end it was all ground and stew meat. |
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#132 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 881
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#133 | |
Kayak-46
![]() Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,891
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For gosh sakes Forest Dweller, take a chill pill lest forum history repeat itself.
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The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun. |
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#134 |
Backcountry Wanderer
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pocono Mts, Pa. and Adirondacks
Posts: 805
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I respectfully submit that legal hunting is not a prominent issue in considering wildlife numbers in the ADKs. In the Pocono region of Pennsylvania, we have more deer, bears, and turkeys than you can shake a stick at, as well as a bountiful load of hunters each year.
The more telling factor is what the local habitat can support. We have tons of acorns for wildlife, for example, and not nearly the harsh winters that deep freeze the ADKs for months on end. Illegal hunting, though, may be another story especially when done over baited stands.
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Ahh............Wilderness....... |
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#135 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 559
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Then they have to deal with that in addition to hunters and automobiles.
Last edited by Neil; 09-30-2016 at 06:47 AM.. |
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#136 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 881
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#137 |
Low Impact Skidder
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 689
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I know some Native Americans (Indians) who hunt deer year round. I have pulled several deer out for them with my quad. (They don't hunt within the Blue Line). That's the way they were raised and they use pretty much the whole deer. They make crafts and gifts from the animal but the meat, they eat. I wouldn't say they hunt only on the rez, but they see nothing wrong with that.
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Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience. ![]() |
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#138 |
Yayabrazie
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Paul Smiths
Posts: 53
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When I was working with the forest rangers they said that the moose abundant moose population was located in Franklin County. This was up near Gold Smith Rd on your way to Plattsburg from Saranac Lake. If you ever go that way I would highly recommend going down this road.
Ive seen moose tracks almost every time. My first moose sighting was in Paul Smiths of May 2015. You want to see a bear? I would recommend the Whitney Wilderness area (Last time I saw them there was Thanksgiving). Or Old Forge |
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#139 |
Backcountry Wanderer
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pocono Mts, Pa. and Adirondacks
Posts: 805
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I've seen moose tracks in the Perkins clearing area above Speculator nearly every time I've been there.
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Ahh............Wilderness....... |
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