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Old 04-10-2015, 10:09 AM   #41
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Sorry, I don't buy the more logging the better theory with regards to wildlife - it implies that wildlife need humans to impact the environment (negatively) for them to thrive. If that is the case how did wildlife do perfectly fine back when humans, native Americans in particular, left the forests pretty much alone?
I think it depends on what you mean by "thrive". The fact that you don't see animals in the Adirondacks like a game park does not necessarily mean the system is not in balance. The various populations will usually attain equilibrium with the food supply. If the food supply in a mature forest is low, then a lower level of wildlife would be normal,no?
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Old 04-10-2015, 10:58 AM   #42
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To be clear: do "not" agree with the above post at all- I believe this sort of thinking is backward and originates from people who benefit by directly by "industry" i.e, logging. This is a discussion about biodiversity not about how you make money. As far as Maine's greater wildlife (Baxter Park) 20 x 40 mile (hunting and logging free zone) is the cause of more wildlife along with a vast border with Canada unobstructed.

The Adirondacks biodiversity would benefit by stopping the constant slaughter of its flora and fauna...
It would be interesting to see how much of a jump the wildlife population in the ADKs would be if there was a 5-10 year moratorium on hunting. I wouldn't mind that experiment taking place since I think it would once and for all solve the Adirondack wildlife conundrum.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:10 AM   #43
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It would be interesting to see how much of a jump the wildlife population in the ADKs would be if there was a 5-10 year moratorium on hunting. I wouldn't mind that experiment taking place since I think it would once and for all solve the Adirondack wildlife conundrum.


I don't hunt, but in areas with heavier hunting than the Adirondacks (Catskills, PA, etc) the deer populations are quite high. I assume it's deer you are talking about as there are no shortage of bears? By the way, I've spent some time in Labrador. Other than bugs, you would be shocked at the lack of viewable wildlife. Saw a moose and her calf on one trip. Other than that, some birds. Can't blame hunting, logging or fragmented wilderness. The food supply is the limiting factor. (and the vastness since they are not concerned about our need to view them).
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:19 PM   #44
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I don't hunt, but in areas with heavier hunting than the Adirondacks (Catskills, PA, etc) the deer populations are quite high. I assume it's deer you are talking about as there are no shortage of bears? By the way, I've spent some time in Labrador. Other than bugs, you would be shocked at the lack of viewable wildlife. Saw a moose and her calf on one trip. Other than that, some birds. Can't blame hunting, logging or fragmented wilderness. The food supply is the limiting factor. (and the vastness since they are not concerned about our need to view them).
I just looked into the causes for the lack of wildlife you reported in Labrador using the info here and it looks like the primary causes attributed to the significant loss of what were once native species found in abundance (marten, wolverine, caribou) are habitat loss due to forest harvest, deforestation, illegal hunting, snaring/trapping, and incidental mortality. According to the info the populations of the native wildlife was much higher across the board than it is now, with large declines starting around 50 years ago.
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:23 PM   #45
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I just looked into the causes for the lack of wildlife you reported in Labrador using the info here and it looks like the primary causes attributed to the significant loss of what were once native species found in abundance (marten, wolverine, caribou) are habitat loss due to forest harvest, illegal hunting, snaring/trapping, and incidental mortality. Bird populations seem to be rising back towards sustainable levels however, presumably because of the discontinuation of the use of DDT.
Boreal,

Caribou,etc would be found in northern Labrador, which I did not visit. The area I visit is a 40 minute float plane ride over unbroken wilderness. Virgin boreal forest. Picture 10 Adirondack parks with no roads. Hard to believe that any of those issues affects that area. By the way, I wasn't saying there isn't wildlife in Labrador at all, just what chance and space allows to be viewed.
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:00 PM   #46
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It would be interesting to see how much of a jump the wildlife population in the ADKs would be if there was a 5-10 year moratorium on hunting. I wouldn't mind that experiment taking place since I think it would once and for all solve the Adirondack wildlife conundrum.
Stopping hunting wouldn't do a thing, other than to further cripple the local economy. Controlled, well-managed forestry practices on more land would go a long way to improve wildlife habitat diversity.
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:03 PM   #47
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What are the reasons why the Adirondack moose population seems stuck at around 800 animals? Any facts why or even theories?
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:13 PM   #48
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I just looked into the causes for the lack of wildlife you reported in Labrador using the info here and it looks like the primary causes attributed to the significant loss of what were once native species found in abundance (marten, wolverine, caribou) are habitat loss due to forest harvest, deforestation, illegal hunting, snaring/trapping, and incidental mortality. According to the info the populations of the native wildlife was much higher across the board than it is now, with large declines starting around 50 years ago.
My guess is a report like this is made by anti hunters and anti logging. Theirs always a theory with some sort of evidence that says they are right. If you want to prove logging and hunting is bad you can if you want to prove its good you can. The government and other agencies presents whay the people want to see. Ive read on the dec website where it says logging is bad which is why the Adirondacks are not looged but in a diffrent section I found where it said logging is good which is why we have logging on state land outside the park.
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:26 PM   #49
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I believe this sort of thinking is backward and originates from people who benefit by directly by "industry" i.e, logging.
Doesn't everybody benefit from logging?
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:33 PM   #50
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I don't know how they log in NY or what kind of mess they make but when you see what they do up here in Ontario it really takes me aback. The mess they leave, the mud and torn up land. Just a big swath of destruction.
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:48 PM   #51
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I don't know how they log in NY or what kind of mess they make but when you see what they do up here in Ontario it really takes me aback. The mess they leave, the mud and torn up land. Just a big swath of destruction.
Theirs realy not anyway to not make a mess in bigger jobs. Smaller scale jobs usualy have a couple people working and smaller equipment they can pick their days to work and go slower. Larger scale logging is usually done in winter to minimize damage and gets shut down on wet days. Although theirs still not a good way to get large amounts of timber out without rutting things up.
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:58 PM   #52
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Just seen in the dec press releases that they have a burn scheduled for the bog brook unique area(Not the adirondacks.) Thought since we've been discussing management some of you may be interested in looking it up and reading about their reasons for conducting the burn.
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Old 04-10-2015, 07:14 PM   #53
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I may be wrong, but I think that the Adirondacks are currently thriving with wildlife.
Maybe not as much as 100 years ago or more, or as much as other regions in the Northeast, but it's certainly much better than say 50 years ago.
Anyone who visits the backcountry more than just a couple months out of the year may agree, especially while solo when things are more quiet and you notice things a little more.
I think the most abundant areas are in the central, southern, and eastern regions based on my own experiences.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:45 PM   #54
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It would be interesting to see how much of a jump the wildlife population in the ADKs would be if there was a 5-10 year moratorium on hunting. I wouldn't mind that experiment taking place since I think it would once and for all solve the Adirondack wildlife conundrum.
I like the way you think.

Trapping too.

After the experiment proves successful can we extend the moratorium to eternity?
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Old 04-11-2015, 07:24 AM   #55
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I like the way you think.

Trapping too.

After the experiment proves successful can we extend the moratorium to eternity?
There would just be alot of sick animals running around. How many turkeys and deer died this winter? The woods can only support so many animals at a time.
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:14 AM   #56
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I just don't know how nature did it on it's own Brookie hunter. And hunters come up with all sorts of justifications for doing what they want to do. I especially love the "gotta kill wolves because they cut into my moose and elk action" one.
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:19 PM   #57
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You see more large wild animals in national parks than elsewhere, not necessarily because there are actually more of them, but because they are not afraid of people because they aren't hunted.
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:37 PM   #58
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You see more large wild animals in national parks than elsewhere, not necessarily because there are actually more of them, but because they are not afraid of people because they aren't hunted.
Good observation.

As for the previous post I don't why anyone needs to kill a wolf.
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Old 04-11-2015, 04:09 PM   #59
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Some animals thrive because of human activities like Bambi and bunny rabbits and some suffer like the big predators and spotted type owls. One needs to define what their aim is, no?
Until we can achieve the tolerance of big predators then hunting will be a small aid to the well being of the forest.
Don't want to suck anyone into a hunting discussion but methinks one can observe nature or be a part of it, nothing wrong with either.
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Old 04-11-2015, 07:57 PM   #60
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Some animals thrive because of human activities like Bambi and bunny rabbits and some suffer like the big predators and spotted type owls. One needs to define what their aim is, no?
Until we can achieve the tolerance of big predators then hunting will be a small aid to the well being of the forest.
Don't want to suck anyone into a hunting discussion but methinks one can observe nature or be a part of it, nothing wrong with either.
I think the aim is pretty clear. It's the well being of all wildlife and not just the ones hunters and ranchers deem desirable. The well being of the forest is best served by having big predators. There is clarity it is only hunters and ranchers who win by muddying the waters. Predator kills a calf. So what pass the cost along. Food is too cheap that's why we're such fat %#*#?& 's.
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