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bear canisters on the NPT

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  • #16
     A designated primitive campsite is one identified by a DEC permissive sign or disk and campers may not camp in excess of 15 feet from such signs or disks. To define proper camp locations, disperse use and limit adverse impacts to resources and other campers, a regulation will be adopted to prohibit camping further than 15 feet from a camping disk throughout the HPWC.
    ---------------------
    no more primitive camping as I know it
    expect this to eventually go beyond high peaks region
    as other states have been doing

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Terasec View Post
       A designated primitive campsite is one identified by a DEC permissive sign or disk and campers may not camp in excess of 15 feet from such signs or disks. To define proper camp locations, disperse use and limit adverse impacts to resources and other campers, a regulation will be adopted to prohibit camping further than 15 feet from a camping disk throughout the HPWC.
      ---------------------
      no more primitive camping as I know it
      expect this to eventually go beyond high peaks region
      as other states have been doing
      I believe (not 100% sure on this) that the sentence stating that camping will be permitted at designated sites only across the entire High Peaks Wilderness Complex is a typo. Rather, the new regulation will apply to the Central High Peaks (the former Eastern High Peaks) and the Canoe Route only.

      What other states used to allow dispersed camping that have recently restricted it to designated sites only? I'm not aware of any off the top of my head.

      EDIT: The UMP amendment says different things depending on where you look. One section says camping at designated sites only across the entire HPWC. At least one other section says just the Central High Peaks and the Canoe Route only.
      Last edited by DSettahr; 10-03-2019, 11:38 AM.

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      • #18
        This would be a good thing to communicate to the plan managers.

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        • #19
          We're going to need rules and regulations books to carry on our hikes and camping trips. Of course maybe when we buy our permits they'll be included in the price...not.

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          • #20
            I see this conversation is a year old... But my question is almost the same so I am reviving this. Recent Trip Report from TomCat mentioned wanton attacks by the apex predator of the Northwoods - the field mouse. Pillaging by airborne rodents was also mentioned.

            It would be rather inconvenient to lose ones food on trail. A properly hung bear bag did not seem to help - and at the end of the day, frequently after sundown, I struggle with a properly hung bear bag. Not a big struggle, but more time consuming than pacing off 50' and wedging canister under log.

            We regularly borrow a Garcia keg, has served us well. Last time out we rented a Counter Assault bear keg and I was surprised it seems bigger and is listed as heavier. Definitely more cumbersome in the pack. The Bear Vault (clear canisters) are frowned upon if not outride banned by DEC (legend of yellow-yellow lives on) but the BV450 is smaller and lighter.

            And there is some confusion over regulations....

            So my question:
            1. Irresponsible storage of food in open
            2. Bear bag
            3. Outlaw canister (BV450?)
            4. Properly approved cannister


            I would think #4 of course is best. But #3 is better than #1 or #2? Like I am sort of ok with using a canister throughout the Adirondacks just to keep the vermin at bay but am whining a bit about size and weight. Solution may be those handy canister bags you can strap to outside of pack and remove when stashing.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Eyes on the Forest, not on the Trees

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            • #21
              2 & 4

              Originally posted by tenderfoot View Post
              So my question:
              1. Irresponsible storage of food in open
              2. Bear bag
              3. Outlaw canister (BV450?)
              4. Properly approved cannister

              I have used a Garcia keg in the High Peaks and also down in N Georgia where there were some problem bears. I also own a ½ size keg for shorter trips (similar to a Garcia, but different manufacturer).

              Over the years I have had a much bigger problem with acrobatic little rodents than I have with bears. I recently purchased an Ursack Minor Critter bag and had great success with it on thru hikes of the CL50 and NPT.
              I use this hang method:
              Attached Files
              ~~Leave no trace~~

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              • #22
                Another way....
                I have been teaching and using the Marrison Bear haul system for many years with great success. Being a pulley type system (using carabiners as near frictionless pulleys with smooth nylon rope), it makes hauling up especially heavy Boy Scout loads on the first night or two relatively easy. I do not use white rope (have heard that some bears have learned what a white rope means).
                From: https://www.princeton.edu/~oa/training/bearbag.html
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Wldrns; 09-25-2020, 09:26 AM.
                "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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                • #23
                  I had a mouse attack on my food bag way back in 2010, on my second Adirondack camping trip. On all ensuing trips I have had a metal jar lid about 3" in diameter on my paracord, I punched a hole in the center of the lid and tied a knot that goes right below the lid and holds it a foot or so above my bag. A mouse isn't able to climb around the lid since it tips freely on the paracord and is too hard and slippery for them to grab onto. I haven't had any animal problems since. I've never been in a place where canisters were required, but someday I hope to visit some of those places and then I'll have to get a canister.

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                  • #24
                    The marrison system (or another block&tackle) combined with the two tree hang works well and doesnot require the "perfect branch".
                    "There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service

                    My trail journal: DuctTape's Journal

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DuctTape View Post
                      The marrison system (or another block&tackle) combined with the two tree hang works well and doesnot require the "perfect branch".
                      Right, it is usually difficult enough to find a single acceptable tree and supportive enough branch, much less two at a reasonable distance from one another as required for the other method. During the guide training exercise that I instruct, my students have lobbed and got stuck all manner of sticks, water bottles, shoes rocks and everything else in crotches of trees in futile attempts. It often ends up as a comical humerous event on the first night of evaluation for all as the "trip leader of the day" student jock who is being evaluated tries to throw baseball style overhand when underhand usually works the best to get the weighted rope over a perfect branch. Duck!
                      "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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                      • #26
                        I've found throwing like a bolas to be the most effective, yet dangerous method. Be sure everyone else is clear and don't knock yourself out.

                        If you get the perfect release you can hit some crazy high branches with ease.

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                        • #27
                          I've found that the key to successful throwing is making sure the rope is not tangled so it will fly up after the rock nicely, and finding a rock that will not slide out of the rope. I've always been able to find a good branch, but sometimes I've had to wander around for a bit first.

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                          • #28
                            A friend of mine who is a fellow guide instructor thought he had a perfect solution to throwing a rope over a branch. He had a slingshot with fishing line attached to a larger rope, and a steel washer tied to the end of the line. He fired the washer at the branch, only to have it run out of line and the monofilament acted like a spring to launch the washer straight back to where it came from with great velocity. Of course it struck my friend directly in his forehead before he could duck, leaving a large mark. So much for a good idea. I remind him of it from time to time.
                            "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Zach View Post
                              I've found that the key to successful throwing is making sure the rope is not tangled so it will fly up after the rock nicely
                              This is key - take the time to unfurl it and make sure it won't hand up on anything - It usually catches on my hand or some other part of my body though

                              I simply put a rock in a small stuff sack that I use for my stove, then tie the drawstring to my hang rope. Works great.

                              I'll actually admit there have been times though where I've had trouble finding a rock that was the right size. In some areas it seems to be pebbles or bowling balls, and a billiard ball size, which is about perfect, is a rarity.

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                              • #30
                                My preference is for a rock that's at least twice as long as it is wide, so I can tie the rope directly around it without it slipping off too easily. Also I have found that rough or bumpy rocks are better than smooth ones, for the same reason. The bag idea sounds good too, but I'm a little too primitive for that, I guess.

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