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  • Putnam pond/pharaoh lake loop?

    So I'm looking around on adirondackatlas.org maps, and I have a dumb question. I see a lot of "green" lines for trails that just end, and the map shows a dotted white line from that point. Is that just a mapping screen drawing glitch, or does that indicate something like "this trail used to go here but now it's impassable?" I want to do a loop in that area over the course of 4 days or so. Any suggestions? I'm not sure of the terrain in that area other than what I can tell from the topo, since I've never been there. Lots of ups and downs? I'm looking for something similar to the west canada lakes loop. I was looking at putnam to clear to rock to bear and back, but not sure if that's too short or too long for 4 days. We took three good days to do the west canada lake loop, so we aren't speed hikers by any means.

  • #2
    I've never used that site, but I looked at it just now - pretty good information. Took a minute of guessing to figure out how to find the map legend. If you open the side panel, and then click on the box with a checkmark in it, it brings up a bunch of things you can add to the map.

    The green lines near Putnam Pond are the land use classification boundary for the state campground, vs. the wilderness area..

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    • #3
      Originally posted by TCD View Post
      I've never used that site, but I looked at it just now - pretty good information. Took a minute of guessing to figure out how to find the map legend. If you open the side panel, and then click on the box with a checkmark in it, it brings up a bunch of things you can add to the map.

      The green lines near Putnam Pond are the land use classification boundary for the state campground, vs. the wilderness area..

      Yes, I only have trails, lean tos and campsites selected...that was the other thing I was wondering about -- tent sites don't seem to show up for any of those ponds. Because they don't exist, or because they haven't been entered into whatever data is building those maps, I have no idea.

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      • #4
        Have you looked at https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/107648.html ?

        There are descriptions of elevation changes over distances listed for many of the trails you mention.

        Unfortunately, it appears that some of the map links are not correct. Since designated campsites show on the map for Pharoah Lake, I would assume that there are no designated sites on the ponds other than the lean to on Clear, but I can't be sure die tot he incorrect map coming up for a few of the links.

        However, I read on and find:

        "There are 38 designated primitive tent sites and 14 lean-tos in the wilderness. All are available on a first come - first served basis and cannot be reserved. Designated tent sites are marked with a yellow "Camp Here" disc. Designated tent sites are for tents only. Tents or small campers can use designated campsites. There are no hook-ups for water or electricity at campsites.

        Lean-tos, especially those on Pharaoh Lake are very popular in the summer and fall. Finding an unoccupied lean-to may be difficult. Campers should be prepared to hike farther than planned to reach an unoccupied lean-to and be prepared to use a designated tent site.

        Three designated tent sites are located along Pharaoh Lake Trail between Pharaoh Lake Road Trailhead and Pharaoh Lake. Two are located at the Mill Brook crossing near the intersection of the Crab Pond Trail and one is located at the Pharaoh Lake Brook crossing.

        A designated tent site is located on the shore of Crab Pond which can be accessed from the Pharaoh Lake Road Trailhead via Pharaoh Lake Trail and Crab Pond Trail.

        14 designated tent sites are located on the shore of Pharaoh Lake along Pharaoh Lake Loop Trail which can be accessed from:
        •Sucker Brook Trailhead via Sucker Brook Trail;
        •Pharaoh Lake Road Trailhead via Pharaoh Lake Trail;
        •New Hague Road Trailhead via Spring Hills Pond Trail;
        •Putnam Pond Campground Trailhead South via Grizzle Ocean Trail;
        •Short Swing Trailhead via the Short Swing Trail and the Glidden Marsh Trail;
        •Long Swing/Blue Hill Trailhead via Long Swing Trail, Crane Pond Trail and Glidden Marsh Trail; and
        •Crane Pond Trailhead via Crane Pond Trail.

        Pharaoh Mountain Tent Site can be accessed from:
        •Pharaoh Lake Road Trailhead via Pharaoh Lake Trail, Pharaoh Lake Loop Trail and the Pharaoh Mountain Trail;
        •Long Swing/Blue Hill Trailhead via Long Swing Trail and Pharaoh Mountain Trail;
        •Crane Pond Trailhead via Crane Pond Trail and Pharaoh Mountain Trail.

        Two designated tent sites are located on the shore of Springhill Ponds which can be accessed from New Hague Road Trailhead via Springhill Ponds Trail and Springhill Ponds Spur Trail.

        Three designated tent sites are located on the shore of Lost Pond which can be accessed from Lost Pond Trailhead via Lost Pond Trail.

        Nine designated tent sites are located on the shore of Crane Pond and can only be accessed by water. Crane Pond can be accessed from Crane Pond Trailhead via Crane Pond Trail.

        Three designated tent sites are located on the shore of Goose Pond which can be accessed from Crane Pond Trailhead via Crane Pond Trail and Goose Pond Trail.

        A designated tent site is located on the shore of Gull Pond which can be accessed from the Gull Pond Trailhead via the Gull Pond Trail.

        A designated tent site is located on the shore of Spectacle Pond which can be accessed from the Spectacle Pond Trailhead via the Spectacle Pond Trail.

        Berrymill Pond Lean-to can be accessed from New Hague Road Trailhead via Berrymill Pond Trail.

        Grizzle Ocean Lean-to can be access from Putnam Pond Trailhead via Grizzle Ocean Trail and Grizzle Ocean Loop Trail.

        Clear Pond Lean-to can be accessed from Clear Pond Trailhead via Clear Pond Trail and Putnam Pond Trailhead via Grizzle Ocean Trail and Clear Pond Trail.

        Little Rock Pond Lean-to can be accessed from Putnam Pond Campground Trailhead North via Clear Pond Trail.

        Rock Pond Lean-to can be accessed from Putnam Pond Campground Trailhead North via Clear Pond Trail and Rock Pond Trail.

        Tubmill Marsh Lean-to, Lilypad Pond Lean-to, and Oxshoe Pond Lean-to are located along Short Swing Trail and can be accessed from:
        •Short Swing Trailhead via Short Swing Trail;
        •Long Swing/Blue Hill Trailhead via Long Swing Trail, Crane Pond Trail, Pharaoh Mountain Trail, Glidden Marsh Trail, and Short Swing Trail; and
        •Crane Pond Trailhead via Crane Pond Trail, Pharaoh Mountain Trail, Glidden Marsh Trail, and Short Swing Trail."

        SO there are no designated sites on those ponds except the lean to on Clear.

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        • #5
          Ah, thank you. I have no idea why I consistently forget to look to the "official" resource.

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          • #6
            Yeah, the green lines are the administrative boundaries- like TCD says, in this case they denote the boundary between the intensive use area (the campground) and the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness. You can't get rid of them as they are part of the "background" of the map, rather than something that can toggle on the key on the left side of the screen.

            Similarly, the dotted white lines are trails and are also part of the background of the map. If you toggle the "trails" layer in the key on the left menu, you'll get all of the same information but with the trails denoted as bright orange lines- a lot easier to see against the green background (hopefully you're not color blind- the fact that they chose that particular color scheme).

            FWIW: I'd take any and all info on that site with a grain of salt. I noticed some egregious errors in the trails layer, and as you pointed out, the campsites layer is also incomplete. In particular, the fabled "Crab Pond Lean-to" is shown- there is not, and never has been, a lean-to at Crab Pond. It looks like they just took the information that was published by the APA over 15 years ago, and uploaded and shared it without any attempt at field truthing. The APA's GIS data set for the Adirondack Park is notoriously incomplete and inaccurate in spots.

            As far as tent sites, most (but not all) of those bodies of water have at least 1 tent site in addition to the lean-tos. Pharaoh has 15, Crane Pond has 10, Oxshoe has 3, Crab (the northern Crab Pond) has 1, Horseshoe has 1, Rock has 3, Clear has 1, Grizzle Ocean has 1. I made a longer post back in April with more info on the location of tent sites in the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness that you might find helpful.

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            • #7
              Yeah, in response to Lucky13's comment... even the DEC webpage is lacking in accurate info. Which unfortunately is also not that atypical.

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              • #8
                Last year I did a 4-day loop in the PLWA. Got a late start from Crane, went by Oxshoe and camped at Crab. The next day I went around Rock and camped at Clear. The next day I went by Grizzle Ocean to the Split Rock Bay leanto on Pharaoh. The next day I went out past Glidden Marsh back to Crane. I had a great time. Hopefully Justin will weigh in with some ideas, as he knows the area well.
                "Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing."
                - Henry David Thoreau

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
                  Yeah, the green lines are the administrative boundaries- like TCD says, in this case they denote the boundary between the intensive use area (the campground) and the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness. You can't get rid of them as they are part of the "background" of the map, rather than something that can toggle on the key on the left side of the screen.

                  Similarly, the dotted white lines are trails and are also part of the background of the map. If you toggle the "trails" layer in the key on the left menu, you'll get all of the same information but with the trails denoted as bright orange lines- a lot easier to see against the green background (hopefully you're not color blind- the fact that they chose that particular color scheme).

                  FWIW: I'd take any and all info on that site with a grain of salt. I noticed some egregious errors in the trails layer, and as you pointed out, the campsites layer is also incomplete. In particular, the fabled "Crab Pond Lean-to" is shown- there is not, and never has been, a lean-to at Crab Pond. It looks like they just took the information that was published by the APA over 15 years ago, and uploaded and shared it without any attempt at field truthing. The APA's GIS data set for the Adirondack Park is notoriously incomplete and inaccurate in spots.

                  As far as tent sites, most (but not all) of those bodies of water have at least 1 tent site in addition to the lean-tos. Pharaoh has 15, Crane Pond has 10, Oxshoe has 3, Crab (the northern Crab Pond) has 1, Horseshoe has 1, Rock has 3, Clear has 1, Grizzle Ocean has 1. I made a longer post back in April with more info on the location of tent sites in the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness that you might find helpful.
                  Are these designated sites, or sites that have become established by use over time, and are in compliance with the 150 foot rules? If designated I can't understand why NYSDEC does not list them.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lucky13 View Post
                    Are these designated sites, or sites that have become established by use over time, and are in compliance with the 150 foot rules? If designated I can't understand why NYSDEC does not list them.
                    Every site I listed in that post is an officially designated site, complete with a "Camp Here" disc- and therefore legal to use regardless of whatever setback they have from trails and/or water. In fact, many of the sites I listed in that post are waterfront sites.

                    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
                      Yeah, the green lines are the administrative boundaries- like TCD says, in this case they denote the boundary between the intensive use area (the campground) and the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness. You can't get rid of them as they are part of the "background" of the map, rather than something that can toggle on the key on the left side of the screen.

                      Similarly, the dotted white lines are trails and are also part of the background of the map. If you toggle the "trails" layer in the key on the left menu, you'll get all of the same information but with the trails denoted as bright orange lines- a lot easier to see against the green background (hopefully you're not color blind- the fact that they chose that particular color scheme).
                      l.
                      I don't think those are the green lines I'm talking about. When I toggle the hiking trails key, my trails are bright green, not orange -- and they don't "cover" the white dotted trails completely. That's what was confusing me. Maybe it's a safari thing. Or maybe I'm just finding out I'm color blind.

                      Here's what I see.
                      The sections I highlighted in yellow don't have the "green" overlay.

                      https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwywu53qoabbn1d/map.jpg?dl=0

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                      • #12
                        Ok, yeah- that's definitely a bug somewhere and not indicative of anything meaningful regarding those trails. Could be a rendering error given that you're using a browser (Safari) that they may not have tested the site with. It it could be something on the server side of things- a corrupt database, etc.

                        Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

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                        • #13
                          A corrupt database used by a NYS agency? That could never happen!!!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TrailBlaser View Post
                            Last year I did a 4-day loop in the PLWA. Got a late start from Crane, went by Oxshoe and camped at Crab. The next day I went around Rock and camped at Clear. The next day I went by Grizzle Ocean to the Split Rock Bay leanto on Pharaoh. The next day I went out past Glidden Marsh back to Crane. I had a great time. Hopefully Justin will weigh in with some ideas, as he knows the area well.
                            I'm having a hard time following this track on the map. If you camped at Crab, did you bushwhack over to Rock? Or is there a trail that doesn't show? Or did you do something like this:

                            Last edited by JohnnyVirgil; 08-16-2019, 09:09 AM.

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                            • #15
                              There's a trail between Crab/Horseshoe and Lilypad, that for some reason is completely absent in that interface. Also, that trail through Tubmill Marsh doesn't exist (and had never existed).

                              Again, I'd suggest that you not use the Adirondack Atlas site for planning any backcountry trips, as the information is incomplete and/or inaccurate in spots. Pick up a copy of the National Geographic Trails Illustrated map for the Lake George/Great Sacandaga regions of the Adirondacks (which includes Pharaoh) instead.

                              Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

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