Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Hunting and Fishing in the Adirondacks
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-06-2018, 09:04 PM   #21
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyVirgil View Post
Next time you'll know to look for the game camera and do a little dance.
Oh no doubt I was on camera, especially when I walked by the camp that I also passed later that day.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2018, 11:40 PM   #22
2505
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 47
Those were some nice bucks...
2505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 09:51 AM   #23
mgc
Member
 
mgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyVirgil View Post
Next time you'll know to look for the game camera and do a little dance.
Or report it to the DEC. ECO's would make a point of taking a look at it. Using your smart phone and the NYS Pocket Ranger app you can enter a violation report or you may call the enforcement hotline1-844-332-3267 to report it or other baiting. As has previously noted, hunting where there are naturally occurring or planted foods is legal, baiting is not. If you plant an apple tree and hunt near it..that is legal...if you put a pile of apples on the ground it is not.
Folks assume that baiting is legal because they can buy Swamp Donkey or Deer Cane at Tractor Supply, Dicks, Walmart...it is not. These retailers do a dis-service by selling these products even though it is illegal to use them. For the hunter that buys these products, the Ted Nugent wanna-be's...good luck convincing the ECO's...ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse when they book you.
mgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 10:18 AM   #24
gmorin71
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 587
what sorts of penalties come with baiting?
__________________
"The finest gift you can give to any fisherman is to put a good fish back, and who knows if the fish that you caught isn't someone else's gift to you?"

Lee Wulff
gmorin71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 11:47 AM   #25
JohnnyVirgil
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Porter Corners, NY
Posts: 762
Interesting. So you can't bait even on your own land. I don't hunt, so I wasn't aware.
JohnnyVirgil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 12:14 PM   #26
Lucky13
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 285
The Town where I grew up, used to haul road salt from the mines in Retsoff NY back to the Highway Department garage near Rochester in the summer and fall when they were unable to do other jobs. One of the drivers picked up a load of salt and then detoured to his nearby hunting camp and dumped a pile down the road from the camp, then headed back north. He stopped for lunch at a ginmill around Wayland and got carried away with his beveraging. The State Police wondered what a truck with a load of salt was doing outside a bar so far from home, checked him and found him too drunk to drive, and then had the town come and get him. The NYS Police also called DEC who went to the camp, and finding the pile of salt posted the whole area around the camp as No Hunting for that season, and until the salt was gone. His attempt at getting some free road salt , maybe just to help keep the road open after snow, resulted in him losing his job and all his hunting buddies, who had to find other places to hunt that year.
Lucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 12:21 PM   #27
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmorin71 View Post
what sorts of penalties come with baiting?
High if you are just baiting. Much higher if you actually make a kill while baiting.

https://www.recordonline.com/article...news/811150326

"In New York, hunting over bait is a violation that carries a $250 fine. Killing a deer over bait is a misdemeanor, accompanied by a $2,000 fine and license revocation. Baiting is not illegal in every state, nor is it illegal for every animal. For example, hunters can kill bobcats over bait in New York."

Plus, your kill will be confiscated and your firearm may likely be confiscated.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 12:41 PM   #28
gmorin71
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
High if you are just baiting. Much higher if you actually make a kill while baiting.

https://www.recordonline.com/article...news/811150326

"In New York, hunting over bait is a violation that carries a $250 fine. Killing a deer over bait is a misdemeanor, accompanied by a $2,000 fine and license revocation. Baiting is not illegal in every state, nor is it illegal for every animal. For example, hunters can kill bobcats over bait in New York."

Plus, your kill will be confiscated and your firearm may likely be confiscated.
I wonder why there is such a drastic difference. Obviously the goal of baiting is to make a kill...unless you're a photographer or something. Seems like the punishment for baiting should be much more severe. seems like the gap between the penalties is more substantial than the gap between the acts. maybe the logic is that point exactly...that someone could simply claim they intended to photograph or observe rather than kill. Could be wrong, who knows.
__________________
"The finest gift you can give to any fisherman is to put a good fish back, and who knows if the fish that you caught isn't someone else's gift to you?"

Lee Wulff
gmorin71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 12:52 PM   #29
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,816
Did you read the attached article?
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 01:09 PM   #30
gmorin71
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
Did you read the attached article?
Originally no, but I did go back and read it after you asked. Why do you ask?
__________________
"The finest gift you can give to any fisherman is to put a good fish back, and who knows if the fish that you caught isn't someone else's gift to you?"

Lee Wulff
gmorin71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 02:46 PM   #31
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmorin71 View Post
Originally no, but I did go back and read it after you asked. Why do you ask?
because your post #28 indicates you had no clue. That article (and other similar articles, including on the DEC web site) had your answer.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 02:57 PM   #32
gmorin71
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
because your post #28 indicates you had no clue. That article (and other similar articles, including on the DEC web site) had your answer.
I definitely didn't have a clue, but I also didn't see anything in the article that addressed that at all. I still don't know. Unless I missed something.
__________________
"The finest gift you can give to any fisherman is to put a good fish back, and who knows if the fish that you caught isn't someone else's gift to you?"

Lee Wulff
gmorin71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 03:06 PM   #33
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmorin71 View Post
Unless I missed something.
Here's a clue (from the article, you can find more articles with google if you care to).

"There are myriad reasons for the rise in bait hunting. Because sportsman are hunting on smaller plots of land, Lindsley said they want to be sure that deer migrate onto their land and not their neighbor’s, so they sprinkle some corn around. And some bait hunting can be attributed to simple laziness."

"longtime hunters say that using bait spits in the face of good sportsmanship, and that’s why the vast majority of bait hunters who are caught get reported to the DEC by upstanding sportsmen. They draw a distinct line between hunting and killing. Hunters use rub marks on trees and hoof prints to track the animals’ migration, while cheaters, they said, spread some food to divert deer from their natural path, and wait nearby.

“Hunting over bait spoils it because it’s not fair,” said Frank LaBuda, the Sullivan County judge and veteran hunter. “Let’s face it, to draw the deer toward you and away from their natural habitat so you can get an easy shot is killing, not hunting"

More:

Baiting wildlife is illegal. Hunters have an obligation to follow the law. Shooting a deer with the aid of bait is poaching.
Those who bait deer (or other wildlife) take opportunities away from other hunters and the general public.
Baiting is a type of supplemental feeding, which can affect how deer behave. Concentrating deer at feeding areas can cause localized problems.
The public is generally supportive of hunting when hunters observe fair chase principles. Baiting deer (or other wildlife) casts hunters and hunting in a negative light, which has the potential to reduce public support for hunting. Ethical hunters are the best advocates for their sport. The biggest “trophy” is knowing that a hunter “did it right.” Forget the bait; enjoy the wait!
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

Last edited by Wldrns; 12-07-2018 at 03:25 PM..
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 03:35 PM   #34
gmorin71
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
Here's a clue (from the article, you can find more articles with google if you care to).

"There are myriad reasons for the rise in bait hunting. Because sportsman are hunting on smaller plots of land, Lindsley said they want to be sure that deer migrate onto their land and not their neighbor’s, so they sprinkle some corn around. And some bait hunting can be attributed to simple laziness."

"longtime hunters say that using bait spits in the face of good sportsmanship, and that’s why the vast majority of bait hunters who are caught get reported to the DEC by upstanding sportsmen. They draw a distinct line between hunting and killing. Hunters use rub marks on trees and hoof prints to track the animals’ migration, while cheaters, they said, spread some food to divert deer from their natural path, and wait nearby.

“Hunting over bait spoils it because it’s not fair,” said Frank LaBuda, the Sullivan County judge and veteran hunter. “Let’s face it, to draw the deer toward you and away from their natural habitat so you can get an easy shot is killing, not hunting"

More:

Baiting wildlife is illegal. Hunters have an obligation to follow the law. Shooting a deer with the aid of bait is poaching.
Those who bait deer (or other wildlife) take opportunities away from other hunters and the general public.
Baiting is a type of supplemental feeding, which can affect how deer behave. Concentrating deer at feeding areas can cause localized problems.
The public is generally supportive of hunting when hunters observe fair chase principles. Baiting deer (or other wildlife) casts hunters and hunting in a negative light, which has the potential to reduce public support for hunting. Ethical hunters are the best advocates for their sport. The biggest “trophy” is knowing that a hunter “did it right.” Forget the bait; enjoy the wait!

Thats my point...none of the quotes that you pulled from the article address the point that I was making. My point was that $250 vs. $2000 is a big gap and I questioned if the reasoning for the big gap was due to DEC not being able to formally prove a baiter's intention.
__________________
"The finest gift you can give to any fisherman is to put a good fish back, and who knows if the fish that you caught isn't someone else's gift to you?"

Lee Wulff
gmorin71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 04:39 PM   #35
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgc View Post
Or report it to the DEC. ECO's would make a point of taking a look at it.
No I’m pretty sure I know who put it there (the salt lick), and I’ll be sure to bust his chops about it next time I see him in the area, and if he did have a game camera set up on it, I’m sure he got a kick out of me checking it out.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 06:52 PM   #36
Wldrns
Member
 
Wldrns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Adirondacks
Posts: 3,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmorin71 View Post
Thats my point...none of the quotes that you pulled from the article address the point that I was making. My point was that $250 vs. $2000 is a big gap and I questioned if the reasoning for the big gap was due to DEC not being able to formally prove a baiter's intention.
I think the quote from the judge says it, and reflects the feelings of ethical hunters and responsible hunting. If you looked into other crime and punishment stats, you would probably have the same question about many other regulations and violation penalties as well.
__________________
"Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

Last edited by Wldrns; 12-07-2018 at 09:30 PM..
Wldrns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 09:24 PM   #37
Buckladd
Member
 
Buckladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 952
Along with ethics and fair chase, another concern with baiting deer, especially corn, is biological. The whitetail's digestive system can take up to two weeks to adjust to a drastic change in food sources; such as what happens when deer season is over and the bait is no longer available to the deer. Also, in deep snow deer can burn more calories getting to such a food source than they can get from it.
__________________
Life's short, hunt hard!
Buckladd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 10:57 PM   #38
Schultzz
Low Impact Skidder
 
Schultzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 741
His attempt at getting some free road salt , maybe just to help keep the road open after snow, resulted in him losing his job and all his hunting buddies, who had to find other places to hunt that year. Ill bet he was insalted.
__________________
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.
Schultzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 11:38 PM   #39
timberghost
I bear therefore I am
 
timberghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmorin71 View Post
$250 vs. $2000 is a big gap and I questioned if the reasoning
One is a violation the other is a criminal charge - classification under law.
Analogous to speeding ticket vs. DWI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wldrns View Post
"In New York, hunting over bait is a violation that carries a $250 fine. Killing a deer over bait is a misdemeanor, accompanied by a $2,000 fine and license revocation..."
The reasoning, as I understand, is to deter baiting and to punish killing over bait.
__________________
Feverishly avoiding "a steady stream of humanity, with a view that offers little more than butts, boots, elbows and backsides". (description quote from Joe Hackett)
timberghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 10:10 AM   #40
mgc
Member
 
mgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckladd View Post
Along with ethics and fair chase, another concern with baiting deer, especially corn, is biological. The whitetail's digestive system can take up to two weeks to adjust to a drastic change in food sources; such as what happens when deer season is over and the bait is no longer available to the deer. Also, in deep snow deer can burn more calories getting to such a food source than they can get from it.
Several years ago I was turkey hunting. In the very dim early light I was seeing a big white area in the woods that didn't make a great deal of sense to me. When it got light out I realized that I was looking at a dead deer...the old "white belly". After I was done and picking up my decoys I went over to look at it. It turns out that someone on an adjacent property had put a small trough out filled with corn. The deer, a nice mature doe, had gorged itself and presumably died from ingesting all of the corn.
Feeding wild animals is a fools errand and it is illegal. I let a local ECO know about what I saw and word got around that they were on the lookout.
A major concern about feeding is that it brings deer to a fixed location. If deer are concentrated in one area it increases the possibility of spreading disease...a major concern if there is chronic wasting disease in play.
The rules of fair chase have existed since the twelve hundreds and are followed by most sportsman...and I make the distinction between sportsman and hunters deliberately. Most sportsman will run anyone with a bait pile or a salt block in...anyone that sees evidence of baiting should do the same.

Last edited by mgc; 12-08-2018 at 10:12 AM.. Reason: typo
mgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.