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Old 08-09-2012, 01:15 PM   #61
cityboy
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Here is a link to statements by two organizations that don't share your enthusism.

http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/a...-adk-purchase/

One thing I think we can all agree on is that it was a tremendous deal for Finch Pruyn.
I was told by the forester that actually was involved in their orginal purchase back in the 60's that they paid $6 per acre. It sold for 110 times their original purchase PLUS logging rights for the next 20 years. Sweet!
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:00 PM   #62
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The logging rights were important to keep local jobs.

The Nature Conservancy did raise funds through donations to facilitate this purchase. It's difficult to imply that Canadians didn't donate money.

"This plan reflects a balanced and thoughtful approach that meets the needs of loggers, wildlife, local businesses, and the tens of thousands of local residents and millions of visitors who use our forests for recreation."

I can't even imagine skiers and snowmobilers agreeing let alone all those different groups.

I also recently read the Gooley club will retain access to the lodge and immediate surrounding land until 2018. It's only 5 years but gives folks plenty of time to make arrangements.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:01 PM   #63
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Who walk up and use it for free and pay nothing!

Sick of us NYS taxpayers giving them a free ride and getting nothing back.
The money our neighbors spend in the region more than off-sets this complaint. There would be MANY more North Country businesses disappearing without the dollars they spend here.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #64
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Who walk up and use it for free and pay nothing!

Sick of us NYS taxpayers giving them a free ride and getting nothing back.
Why do I imagine an 85 year old man trembling, yelling "you little kids get off my lawn!" when I read this?!

Last edited by forest dweller; 08-09-2012 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:53 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by hobblinghiker View Post
Who walk up and use it for free and pay nothing!

Sick of us NYS taxpayers giving them a free ride and getting nothing back.
First thing to teach hobblinghiker is how to correctly use the quote function.

Next, some manners.

When I read the post I instinctively checked under my shoe because I thought I had stepped into some poo.

Every time I spend a day hiking in the dacks I try and spend some money. Being essentially a day hiker sometimes this only amounts to a tank of gas and a sandwhich. Sometimes it amounts to a lot more, such as motels and restaurants.

But really, what should it matter. Trading partners should extend each other all sorts of courtesies.

Btw, I just spent 2 weeks hiking in a National Park in the French Alps. Access, including backcountry camping, was free. Park employees and local residents said the free access and the impeccably groomed (numerous) trails were no coincidence. They and the royal welcome we Canadians got were part of an overall effort to attract folks to the region.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:25 PM   #66
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"Sez who? Where's your source?"

I'm not sure what you're questioning Creekwader. Motor vechicles are never allowed on State land. .
Sure they are. Wild Forest Designated areas have plenty of vehicle access roads. No decision on the land classification of this purchase has been made so that's why I was questioning your source of information. Given that it is highly unlikely that the entire purchase will be designated Wilderness and thus excluding motorized travel, I found your comments to be either ill informed or intentionally misleading.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:18 PM   #67
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Would I be evil to hope for mostly wilderness?
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:47 PM   #68
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Would I be evil to hope for mostly wilderness?
No.

When the Funch Pruyn purchase was first proposed in 2008, I did this analysis for my own personal amusement to see how much of the Essex Chain/Hudson River tract -- combined with portions of adjacent state land -- might qualify as Wilderness. Basically, I extended a hypothetical boundary (in red) around the area that has no **existing public motorized access** that I know of: no public roads, no snowmobile trails.

I call it the "Six Rivers Wilderness."

Like?

The one thing that I forgot was Northern Frontier, who owns the plot of land underneath their camp buildings (near OK Slip Pond). So pretend that you see a tiny inholding on this map south of the Hudson Gorge.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Six Rivers Wilderness Area.jpg (147.3 KB, 101 views)
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:58 PM   #69
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I call it the "Six Rivers Wilderness."
The Six Rivers being:
  1. Hudson
  2. Indian
  3. Cedar
  4. Rock
  5. Goodnow
  6. West Branch Goodnow

The Adirondack Council is pressing for a "Wild Rivers Wilderness" for this same area, but they have a knack for picking names that have already been used. (There is a Wild River Wilderness in NH that has better claim to the name.)
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:53 PM   #70
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"Six Rivers Wilderness."
I like!
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:29 PM   #71
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Can anyone tell me what "ATP Purchase" means?
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:43 PM   #72
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Hey wildriver Bill! If you have a chance show us what you think the boundaries will look like for the Boreas Ponds tract. I'll visit both many many times but I'm really interested to see how nicely that parcel will fit underneath the Adirondack High Peaks.

In fact, if it has a huge border with the Adirondack High Peaks it should just logically be blended in as part of the Adirondack High Peaks, no?
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:57 AM   #73
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"Sure they are. Wild Forest Designated areas have plenty of vehicle access roads."

Any in the central adirondacks? Point out them to me. I'd like to try them out for biking.

Since no designation is made yet we will have to wait. I see 40 miles of road wasted. Looking at the maps I could have a ball using those roads. I might even try bike camping.
Areas around me like Santanoni only allow bikes and walkers to the Lodge. You can't even use a bike on the darn horse trail to Moose Pond anymore. Little Tupper, no bikes. Lake Lila same thing.

Getting back on topic: A general question since its a moot point anyway, but what advantage does outright purchase have over obtaining a conservation easement?
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:32 AM   #74
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Any in the central adirondacks? Point out them to me. I'd like to try them out for biking.
Moose River Plains. Go wild.

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I see 40 miles of road wasted. Looking at the maps I could have a ball using those roads. I might even try bike camping.
Areas around me like Santanoni only allow bikes and walkers to the Lodge. You can't even use a bike on the darn horse trail to Moose Pond anymore. Little Tupper, no bikes. Lake Lila same thing.
Your glass is half empty. It's not the (potential) wilderness designation limiting your access, it's your attachment to your bike that's limiting where you want to go. I've heard ATV owners making the identical arguments.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:42 AM   #75
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The Six Rivers being:
  1. Hudson
  2. Indian
  3. Cedar
  4. Rock
  5. Goodnow
  6. West Branch Goodnow

The Adirondack Council is pressing for a "Wild Rivers Wilderness" for this same area, but they have a knack for picking names that have already been used. (There is a Wild River Wilderness in NH that has better claim to the name.)
Maybe "Six Rivers" in Native tongue?
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:45 AM   #76
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Hey wildriver Bill! If you have a chance show us what you think the boundaries will look like for the Boreas Ponds tract. I'll visit both many many times but I'm really interested to see how nicely that parcel will fit underneath the Adirondack High Peaks.

In fact, if it has a huge border with the Adirondack High Peaks it should just logically be blended in as part of the Adirondack High Peaks, no?
I never did a map of the Boreas Ponds, partly because it was easier to visualize, and partly because I don't expect this one to be as controversial. You're right that much of it will likely be added to the High Peaks Wilderness, although an existing powerline will prevent the wilderness boundary from extending very far down the Boreas River. (The powerline shows clearly on the National Geographic map, and is obvious as you drive the Blue Ridge Road.) The wilderness could be extended from Allen Mountain southeast across the Boreas Ponds all the way to Ragged Mountain, with some frontage on Elk Lake Road.

For anyone who hasn't seen a map of the new acquisitions yet, check this link: http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/42077.html
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:47 AM   #77
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Maybe "Six Rivers" in Native tongue?
Be careful with that. Which native tongue? There is more than one.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #78
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I do like the proposed name.

Has a nicer ring than the Governor Cuomo Wilderness Area.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:55 AM   #79
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Can anyone tell me what "ATP Purchase" means?
ATP is the Danish pension fund that bought 92,000 acres from the Nature Conservancy in 2009. This land is protected by a conservation easement and will be actively harvested to provide pulp wood to the Finch mill.

http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives...imberlands.xml
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:12 AM   #80
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"Your glass is half empty. It's not the (potential) wilderness designation limiting your access, it's your attachment to your bike that's limiting where you want to go."

I disagree Wildriver. This purchase was made out of public funds and purports to open access to all people. Limiting it to just those who can walk the farthest or prepared to spend the night camping is not access to all. I'm not saying open it up to motor vechicles but to have miles of road go to waste is absurd. If they open it up to horses (a big if) then bikes are acceptable too.
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