Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > General Adirondack Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-03-2009, 10:29 PM   #41
timetohike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALGonquin Bob View Post
If the bear was after his food, backing away from the bear and the food would have ended the confrontation.... wouldn't it? That's what anyone who didn't have a firearm would do.
More importantly, if he had a proper bear canister as stated in the story, then the bear would have palyed with the canister, failed to get food, and learned that approaching humans with food at Marcy Dam is a waste of valuable energy. the very purpose of the bear canister regulation would have been realized.

Unless he had a bear vault and this was the infamous bear. In which case just the opposite result would have taken place. The bear would have gotten food and learned that people at Marcy Dam are easy pickin.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 11:11 PM   #42
Corin
28/46
 
Corin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 50 miles south of the Peaks
Posts: 27
I can't believe the supposition on everyone's part on this forum. I am glad that the young man is alive to spark debate...whether he was scared and over reacted is anyone's guess given that we all werent there. Law enforcement's motto is to get home safe to their family no matter what....I think that applies in this situation as well.
__________________
Life is short...Hike accordingly
Corin is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 11:23 PM   #43
Holdstrong
Member
 
Holdstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Keene, NY
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corin View Post
I can't believe the supposition on everyone's part on this forum. I am glad that the young man is alive to spark debate...whether he was scared and over reacted is anyone's guess given that we all werent there. Law enforcement's motto is to get home safe to their family no matter what....I think that applies in this situation as well.
However, "Being there" is not the only way to evaluate a situation... and I would like to think that most of our law enforcement personnel subscribe to a motto that is a bit more sound than getting home safe no matter what - maybe something more along the lines of 'to serve and protect'.
Holdstrong is offline  
Old 09-03-2009, 11:36 PM   #44
Corin
28/46
 
Corin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 50 miles south of the Peaks
Posts: 27
actually...police are trained to get home safe at night whether that means you walk away from a situation without being a hero or you utilize your weapon to defend yourself. I believe that no one knows what they would have done in this situation without actually being faced with it. Evaluating it with should have and could have is not a substitute for being there.
__________________
Life is short...Hike accordingly
Corin is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:10 AM   #45
ALGonquin Bob
Lake Lila - Low's Lake carry
 
ALGonquin Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by timetohike View Post
More importantly, if he had a proper bear canister as stated in the story, then the bear would have palyed with the canister, failed to get food, and learned that approaching humans with food at Marcy Dam is a waste of valuable energy. the very purpose of the bear canister regulation would have been realized.

Unless he had a bear vault and this was the infamous bear. In which case just the opposite result would have taken place. The bear would have gotten food and learned that people at Marcy Dam are easy pickin.
What I got from the original post is that because they had just finished eating dinner, they probably had some food remnants, dirty dishes, etc. out, and the bearproof food canister might have been open - a normal condition at meal time for many of us, I think. Problem is, if somebody is afraid of bears and thinks all they want to do is attack you and eat you, AND that person also has a loaded weapon handy, this is what happens. I am relieved that no person was injured in this incident, but I believe there was a major error in judgement on the part of the trooper in not merely moving away from the food, which is almost (benefit of doubt) certainly the only reason the bears were there at all.
__________________
"Like" my FB page http://tinyurl.com/FB-BuffaloPaddles and visit my map ALGonquin Bob's "BUFFALO PADDLES" Paddle Guide

Check out my "Mountain Blog" http://tinyurl.com/BobMountainBlog2

46er #5357W

Last edited by ALGonquin Bob; 09-04-2009 at 09:07 PM.. Reason: spelin'
ALGonquin Bob is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:31 AM   #46
Neil
Kayak-46
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,027
I'm sure everyone here already knows this but one (of many) way to reduce the risk of unwanted bear visits in camp is to cook dinner an hour or so prior to arriving at your camping spot and to take care that you remain upwind of the cooking vapors as much as possible.
__________________
The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.
Neil is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:46 AM   #47
timetohike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
I'm sure everyone here already knows this but one (of many) way to reduce the risk of unwanted bear visits in camp is to cook dinner an hour or so prior to arriving at your camping spot and to take care that you remain upwind of the cooking vapors as much as possible.
Or at the very least cook a 150 feet downwind from the campsite.

Last year when we arrived at the designated camping sight on the trail to Wright and Algonquin late on a Saturday afternoon there were two campers already on the site cooking up a storm.

I engaged one of them in casual conversation to see if I could politely work in information about not cooking where people camp.

I asked how long they had been out and he said "just since yesterday. We were camped at Marcy Dam but there was a bear in camp that rubbed against our tent so we decided to move up here." I said it could be because your tent smells like the concourse of a major league ball park on a Saturday afternnon in July.
 
Old 09-04-2009, 09:04 AM   #48
ALGonquin Bob
Lake Lila - Low's Lake carry
 
ALGonquin Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by timetohike View Post
Iím reading the story about the number of nuisance bears killed in the ADKís this year...
Can you provide us with a link to that story?
__________________
"Like" my FB page http://tinyurl.com/FB-BuffaloPaddles and visit my map ALGonquin Bob's "BUFFALO PADDLES" Paddle Guide

Check out my "Mountain Blog" http://tinyurl.com/BobMountainBlog2

46er #5357W
ALGonquin Bob is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 09:20 AM   #49
Neil
Kayak-46
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by timetohike View Post
Or at the very least cook a 150 feet downwind from the campsite.

Last year when we arrived at the designated camping sight on the trail to Wright and Algonquin late on a Saturday afternoon there were two campers already on the site cooking up a storm.

I engaged one of them in casual conversation to see if I could politely work in information about not cooking where people camp.

I asked how long they had been out and he said "just since yesterday. We were camped at Marcy Dam but there was a bear in camp that rubbed against our tent so we decided to move up here." I said it could be because your tent smells like the concourse of a major league ball park on a Saturday afternnon in July.
That's the problem with "promiscuous" camping. You can't control what everybody else is doing.

(I like to sneak my bear canister full of juicy meat and smoked salmon into someone else's tent before turning in.)
__________________
The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.
Neil is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 10:01 AM   #50
Holdstrong
Member
 
Holdstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Keene, NY
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corin View Post
actually...police are trained to get home safe at night whether that means you walk away from a situation without being a hero or you utilize your weapon to defend yourself. I believe that no one knows what they would have done in this situation without actually being faced with it. Evaluating it with should have and could have is not a substitute for being there.
This guy isn't the first person to encounter a bear in the Marcy Dam area. Not even close. So we have lots of evidence of "what others would have done in this situation".

Knowing this, which of the following seems more likely:

This situation was completely unique and required actions that run contrary to every other experience with bears in this area.

Or, that someone with a gun applied deadly force in a situation where it could have been avoided.
Holdstrong is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 10:28 AM   #51
lumberzac
Beware of the Lumberzac
 
lumberzac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: country of the lakes and the crooked stream
Posts: 1,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdstrong View Post
This guy isn't the first person to encounter a bear in the Marcy Dam area. Not even close. So we have lots of evidence of "what others would have done in this situation".

Knowing this, which of the following seems more likely:

This situation was completely unique and required actions that run contrary to every other experience with bears in this area.

Or, that someone with a gun applied deadly force in a situation where it could have been avoided.
That's not completely true. I remember a few years ago when a bear had to be destroyed after cornering people in a lean to. In that case they had food with them.

Please note, I'm not defending what the trooper did, but we can only assume what happened without actually being there.
__________________
A man needs to believe in something. I believe I'll go hiking.

http://community.webshots.com/user/lumberzac
lumberzac is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 10:32 AM   #52
RTSpoons
Member
 
RTSpoons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 100
Special treatment, over reaction, and taunting the bear by throwing things at it all seem like things that caused this person to shoot the bear.

My only concern is to avoid this cop on the Northway. A trained police officer gets excited because a bear which probably has been around other campers/hikers explores the area looking for a quick meal. Throws stones and sticks at the animal and than is surprised the thing gets aggressive. All I can say is get that boy evaluated.
RTSpoons is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 10:34 AM   #53
ADK_Dreamer
Member
 
ADK_Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 109
This is all very interesting and very sad.

My husband and I came across a bear Monday, August 24th when walking along the South Meadows Truck Road. It was 11:15 in the morning. We always believed bears to be 'dusk and dawn' type creatures. Being about 50 metres from the bear, we did what Rangers always said. Stop and don't approach. The bear tilted it's head in our direction, but waddled off, ever so slowly down the road until out of our view. We continued to wait another 5 minutes and after we resumed our walk, we made more noise as we approached the corner. She was gone and we, happy to have seen wildlife, were also relieved she was gone!

We don't carry bear spray, but maybe we should. (Is this pepper spray?? If so, it's illegal in Canada.. where can I buy in ADK area?)

In Toronto, we fire our paintball gun at the local wildlife to get raccoons off property. It seems there could have been so many more alternatives than killing this bear.. and I sadly wonder if it is the same one we saw!

We have always walked very quietly through Marcy Dam in the early morning/night hours respectful of sleeping campers. Perhaps we should make our presence better known!

On a final note, I read on one of the other threads a man who hiked to Allen Mt. (I believe) and enjoyed eating the fresh berries en route!! GOOD GRIEF!! Are the wildberries not for the wild bears and other such animals???

NO WONDER THE BEARS ARE HUNGRY!!!
ADK_Dreamer is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 10:52 AM   #54
Holdstrong
Member
 
Holdstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Keene, NY
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberzac View Post
That's not completely true. I remember a few years ago when a bear had to be destroyed after cornering people in a lean to. In that case they had food with them.

Please note, I'm not defending what the trooper did, but we can only assume what happened without actually being there.
Unless you believe that the reports about these incidents are wildly off base - don't we have an idea of what happened? It seems like some posters are suggesting that personally being present in a situation is the only way to have knowledge about it.

Regarding the lean-to incident, maybe my understanding of what happened there is incomplete - but did the people who were cornered in that lean-to shoot the bear?
Holdstrong is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:31 AM   #55
paddlewheel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Creative Screenplay

Girlfriend: Wow...that was a great dinner, the tuna casserole hit the spot, huh?

Trooper: Yup, but I probably coulda done without those sardines and crackers. Did you pack up any Tums?

Girlfriend: yeah, let me get them for you.

Trooper: I think I'll save this empty sardine can and put a candle in it later, whatdayathink?

Girlfriend: Good idea.....HOLY SH!T!!!!LOOK!......a couple of bears!!!

Bears: Mmmmmm! something smells nice and fishy here...let's check it out!

Trooper: Hey chuck a couple of rocks at those bad boys...I'm gonna snag my 3 5 7...

Girlfriend: Uh....honey the rock thing seems to be pissing them Off...better do something quick!!!!

Trooper: HALT OR I'LL SHOOT!!!......I SAID HALT OR I"LL......BAMMMMMM!!!!

BIG BEAR: UUGGGGGGGG!!!!!WHMMMMMMMMMMPH................THUD! !!

Girlfriend: MY HERO!!!!!

Trooper: Yup....damn good thing I went to the pistol range Wednesday..

Girlfriend: I wonder if we can keep it for a rug?
 
Old 09-04-2009, 11:43 AM   #56
timetohike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALGonquin Bob View Post
Can you provide us with a link to that story?
I think someone already did, but here it is again:

More nuisance bears killed this summer
 
Old 09-04-2009, 11:58 AM   #57
Jason
Member
 
Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 266
__________________
Once you've hiked the mighty wilds of Delaware, you'll never be the same--if you survive, that is.
Jason is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 12:04 PM   #58
Dave H
Beware the owlbear.
 
Dave H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colchester, VT
Posts: 60
I can't help but think that, if the cop hadn't been hiking strapped, this entire situation would not have turned into a debate-worthy story.

I'm a firm believer in the value of contingency. People that cook in or around their lean-tos shouldn't be able to rely on firearms when natural selection comes knocking. Defeats the point of being in the WILDerness, doesn't it?
Dave H is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 12:12 PM   #59
Dave H
Beware the owlbear.
 
Dave H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colchester, VT
Posts: 60
Also, I think I'm going to relable all my maps. The Marcy Dam area will now be referred to as "Clown Town".

I'd love to know: if you tabulated all annual occurrences that happen in the ADKs and can reasonably be classified as "unquestionably stupid", what percentage would take place in Clown Town? I'd wager we're talking upwards of 70%.

The state made a mistake when they made that area so easily accessable...
Dave H is offline  
Old 09-04-2009, 12:42 PM   #60
dundee
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,591
That pic of the polar bear is pricless!

I have an idea which will work:
1) remove the dams at Marcy Dam. This is a non-conforming structure in a Wildeness Area. No dam= less reason to camp there= fewer bear incidents=fewer yahoos shooting bears that are doing what bears are supposed to do.
dundee is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.