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Old 09-14-2018, 11:25 AM   #21
Lucky13
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No arguments that there are people misusing these "wilderness" areas. But a ranger can't tell them from the rest when everyone is leaving a parking lot in their EMS togs and Kelty packs! And people who decide that they are exempt from regulations, an elite cadre of the super educated, perhaps, are also misusing the park, even if only by doing something that is or could be detrimental if adopted as practice by the less educated, and making it appear to be all right.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:33 PM   #22
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And people who decide that they are exempt from regulations, an elite cadre of the super educated, perhaps, are also misusing the park, even if only by doing something that is or could be detrimental if adopted as practice by the less educated, and making it appear to be all right.
Do you have an example?

I can't think of anything that an "elite" person could do that is not a misuse in their hands, but is misuse in the hands of a less experienced person.

Misuse is misuse.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:58 PM   #23
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Someone seems to have a bone to pick with the elite educated.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:02 PM   #24
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Someone seems to have a bone to pick with the elite educated.
Yes, my economic situation dictated that I attend public schools and the New York State University system, which I still had to pay to attend in the pre-"free ride for all under a certain AGI" days.

I have a bone to pick with anyone who feels they are above the "rules". That makes them an elitist, and a very bad example for the up and coming. So if the Rules say don't camp 16 feet or more away from the disk, and you think you are somehow exempt from the rule, a member of the "elite" group who knows more and better, yes I have a bone to pick with you. Not suggesting you in the specific, rather the "besides, it's an awfully big woods out there, and they are already understaffed, ya know? :-)" general attitude.

If the UMP was adopted, doesn't that make the recommendations the "rules"?
http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/114508.html
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:29 PM   #25
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Yes, my economic situation dictated that I attend public schools and the New York State University system....

I have a bone to pick with anyone who feels they are above the "rules". That makes them an elitist,
I would have thought that deliberately breaching the regulations makes one an outlaw, not a member of any elite.
As for having an education, higher or not, and irrespective of how it got paid for, I don't understand what that has to do a lack of respect for the regs.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:02 PM   #26
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"I think Dundee is right, they might just leave the people who know what they are doing alone for the most part." This is Ironman designating that he and some others like Dundee should be allowed to camp where they want in an intensively used area. I take that to be an elitist attitude, and he belongs to the elite because he has superior knowledge of the correct way to do things that puts him (in his mind) in a position to be allowed to violate the regulations. I would agree that he is an outlaw, and deserves a ticket just as much as someone who leaves a fire pit full of beer cans, or cuts down a standing dead tree for firewood. I am not one to violate regulations because I think I am in some way superior to those who made them, I am just objecting to the decision. I am also not one to take actions that would be detrimental to the resource, I was as upset as anyone to find out what happened with Little Tupper and have been vigorously opposing people who are using fish as bait, or moving fish (and this is often Mom and Dad and the kids with the little bucket) when I find them doing it and educating them on why it is so bad for the resources.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:11 PM   #27
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"I think Dundee is right, they might just leave the people who know what they are doing alone for the most part." This is Ironman designating that he and some others like Dundee should be allowed to camp where they want in an intensively used area.
That's not what he said or implied, at least not as I read his post. Also, this is not a regulation AFAIK but a proposal for a regulation.
Here is a discussion of the same subject, on a different forum.
http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/f...e-central-hpwa
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:14 PM   #28
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"As for having an education, higher or not, and irrespective of how it got paid for, I don't understand what that has to do a lack of respect for the regs."

It doesn't of course, and I have the same public education myself, complete with a SUNY degree many years ago. But a troll is going to troll. You are right however, deliberately breaking a regulation does make someone an outlaw, there's no way around that. I'm just ranting, very unhappy with these new changes. But I can see situations happening in the future, people hiking out to camp, and all spots taken. Then what? Keep hiking, and hope you find spots at the next area 3 miles in? It sounds easy but after hiking many miles, hungry, and getting dark you always had the option of just setting up somewhere you could find if you had to. Plus, you got away from some of the less knowledgable people, who were cooking at their sites, food in their backpacks, etc.

Regardless, it is not a regulation yet:
"A designated primitive campsite is one identified by a DEC permissive sign or
disk and campers may not camp in excess of 15 feet from such signs or disks.
To define proper camp locations, disperse use and limit adverse impacts to resources
and other campers, a regulation will be adopted to prohibit camping further than 15 feet from a camping disk throughout the HPWC"

It looks like they are also going to develop more primitive camping spots as part of this. Hopefully, they create the spots first before creating this regulation. But this is NY state.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:26 PM   #29
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That's not what he said or implied, at least not as I read his post. [/url]
His entire comment was " And besides, it's an awfully big woods out there, and they are already understaffed, ya know? :-) I think Dundee is right, they might just leave the people who know what they are doing alone for the most part." This implies, to me, well we won't get caught. Facts are facts, but perception is reality.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:27 PM   #30
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If they build it, more will come. Since the permit system is going to be used to manage 4 of the 6 parking spots at Boreas Ponds, maybe instituting a permit system for the HPWA is the way to go. I would point out the campsite reservation system in use at Stillwater, which seems to work pretty well, but from what I am hearing, HPWA users would likely take additional disks or not return them.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:29 PM   #31
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The elite engineers that traveled from Moscow to run some tests at Chernobyl though they knew it all and jumpered out safety equipment before running their test....
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Old 09-15-2018, 08:50 AM   #32
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The elite engineers that traveled from Moscow to run some tests at Chernobyl though they knew it all and jumpered out safety equipment before running their test....
Wow! This thread has strayed deeper into the weeds than the "Missing hiker" thread!
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